How does the Third Imperium compare to the Roman Empire in S

[Tom Kalbfus]

How does the Third Imperium compare to the Roman Empire in Space? Suppose in an alternate reality the Roman Empire survived in its classic form, that known in the first and second centuries. Lets suppose the Roman Empire spread throughout the World and technologically advanced, but retained the same social institutions modified as little as possible to accomodate technological change. Lets say the Earth had one world government based in Rome for many centuries before the first Roman Astronaut was launched into orbit. Now lets substitute this Roman Civilization for the one the Vilani encountered. What sort of Imperium would the Romans make in space, and how would it differ from the Third Imperium if we assumed the same basic Traveller Rules? What would be the Roman equivalent to Social Status. Suppose a wormhole connected this setting with the one the Third Imperium existed in. Who's win in a war between the Third Imperium and the Roman Empire?

 

[dragoner]

Crisis of the Third Century - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_of_the_Third_Century had already destroyed the earlier character of Rome. No great loss though, Rome was evil by that time.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

One empire might be slave-based still. Be interesting to know if slaves make or break a dominant empire over another. Alternate history deals a lot with the USA and CSA at war still.

 

[Condottiere]

Presumably, the Romans conquered the Americas, Africa, India, the Russian steppes, and China.

I don't see them holding the Empire together, unless a time traveller brought them the gift of instant communications.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Presumably, the Romans conquered the Americas, Africa, India, the Russian steppes, and China.

I don't see them holding the Empire together, unless a time traveller brought them the gift of instant communications.

The 3rd Imperium didn't need instant communications.

 

[Condottiere]

Any rebellions, revolts, coup d'etats or mutinies?

 

[Reynard]

Not sure how close to realistic Rome compared to cinematic Rome we're talking. What elements are we considering to be ironically Roman? I'm assuming slavery will be the elephant in the room. Are all worlds colonies (Government 6) of Rome ruled by governors answering directly to the Emperor? Will the Darrians be the Greeks whose advances in science become spoils to the Empire? Are other races treated as barbarians to be conquered (good luck with the Hivers). Is this a Constantinian Rome with a single monolithic religion driving a lot of expansion and aggression to other races? Is life below the well to do have far less meaning or value except to serve their betters?

If any or all of the above would exist, I'd definitely say the Imperium is a whole different animal to the Empire; much more open, tolerant and benevolent.

 

[Reynard]

If anyone (such as I) have a copy of FASAs Legionnaire RPG or Centurion minis game, there's a good example for a Roman space empire. The Commonwealth opponent would be a fair match as the Imperium for comparison.

 

[dragoner]

Any sort of sci-fi evil empire, I'd go Star Wars, people would connect with it easily enough.

 

[jscott991]

The Star Wars Galactic Empire relies heavily on instant communications or faster than light communications to stay together.

It's essentially a unitary, authoritarian state where "regional governors have direct control" and the emperor maintains a great deal of day-to-day administrative authority on Coruscant.

 

[Easterner]

There was a book series in which Rome survived to 20th cent. Authors name was Mitchell IIRC.

The 2 key events were no crucifixion, Pilates' wife argued successfully; and Varus won and Germany was conquered.

 

[dragoner]

The Star Wars Galactic Empire relies heavily on instant communications or faster than light communications to stay together.

It's essentially a unitary, authoritarian state where "regional governors have direct control" and the emperor maintains a great deal of day-to-day administrative authority on Coruscant.

Any thought of galactic empire is pushing it, belief wise. The 3I is originally derived from the sort of same sci-fi tropes that also creates the Star Wars empire. I just think if you are going to game it, Star Wars has the automatic name recognition. The Roman Republic is subverted, and under Ceasar, becomes a military dictatorship, the only outside threat it faces are the Parthians, and then not even that threatening, totally. Continuing civil wars degrades Rome more, and with the invasions of the "Barbarians" such as the Germans, who are Romanized, it isn't a defeat on the battlefield, but that people do not believe in the old idea of the empire. Then the plague of Justinian finishes off classical urban culture and we have the dark ages; translating this all into sci-fi, it is ok, but not necessarily that much better than say Banks' Culture stuff.

 

[Condottiere]

Despite some detours, American politics has settled on a gridlocked legislature, with a term limited executive and a council of elders, whose population seems to be edging towards bread and circuses, and cultural imperialism has a global influence in both it's hard and soft applications.

So you have the forms, as well as an explicitness of being a successor state to the Western Roman Empire.

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

The Star Wars Galactic Empire relies heavily on instant communications or faster than light communications to stay together.

It's essentially a unitary, authoritarian state where "regional governors have direct control" and the emperor maintains a great deal of day-to-day administrative authority on Coruscant.

Any thought of galactic empire is pushing it, belief wise. The 3I is originally derived from the sort of same sci-fi tropes that also creates the Star Wars empire. I just think if you are going to game it, Star Wars has the automatic name recognition. The Roman Republic is subverted, and under Ceasar, becomes a military dictatorship, the only outside threat it faces are the Parthians, and then not even that threatening, totally. Continuing civil wars degrades Rome more, and with the invasions of the "Barbarians" such as the Germans, who are Romanized, it isn't a defeat on the battlefield, but that people do not believe in the old idea of the empire. Then the plague of Justinian finishes off classical urban culture and we have the dark ages; translating this all into sci-fi, it is ok, but not necessarily that much better than say Banks' Culture stuff.

Basically the idea is of an Imperium that was a better analog of the classic Roman Empire, that is no knights, barons, counts, dukes, and arch dukes, Instead of Knights you have Centurians, You have a Senate, you have slavery, and also the Gods of Rome (Jupiter, Mars etc) are worshipped by the populace as the main religion of this Empire Christianity didn't make much in roads in this empire, so pretty much we're talking about an interstellar analog of 1st and 2nd century Roman, as unrealistic as it might be. I know the real Rome probably would not survive this long without some change, but lets push that aside for now. Lets assume all the social aspects of the Roman Empire survived, but we gave them the technology of the Third Imperium, all the equipment is the same, they are just used differently. Lets say we have a group of PCs, that were trying to escape a pirate attack, they are surrounded by pirates and they can't escape, well within a gravity well, but they push the Jump Button anyway and misjump. When they fall out of Jump Space they are still apparently orbiting the same planet, but the pirates are gone. A Patrol Cruiser bearing the Roman Eagle approaches and asks the PCs to identify themselves, and to state their business, also asking how they jumped so close to a planet's surface? What do you think would happen from there?

 

[Reynard]

Told in no uncertain terms to stand down and be boarded as the transponder would be of no known registry. They would be interrogated and the ship impounded. With the components and software in the ship of no legal, let alone known, manufacture and a Library full of data not of that universe, I'd say the characters just became wards of the State.

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

Told in no uncertain terms to stand down and be boarded as the transponder would be of no known registry. They would be interrogated and the ship impounded. With the components and software in the ship of no legal, let alone known, manufacture and a Library full of data not of that universe, I'd say the characters just became wards of the State.

And what do Empires do? They be studying the data in the computer, it would be slow as the ship's computer would not be compatible with their own. Maybe they'll find a file that could translate English into Latin, and the Romans would have to find a file that translates their modern Latin into the classic Latin that is in the ship's computer. And then they'll get a working translator going with lots of patches, then they'll study the files on the Third Imperium, they'll look at the system data and compare it to their own, and they'll check the ship's black box, to try to find out what happened when the ship misjumped and see if they can duplicate the effect in the other direction. Perhaps some of the Roman Centurians are spies or Rebel Sympathizers, they get word back to other disparate groups that don't like Imperial Rule, and are looking for ways to defeat this Empire. the Zhodani might be one such group, The Romans are basically Solomani, and in Traveller terms they would be the "Second Imperium" since Rome never fell.

 

[dragoner]

Told in no uncertain terms to stand down and be boarded as the transponder would be of no known registry. They would be interrogated and the ship impounded. With the components and software in the ship of no legal, let alone known, manufacture and a Library full of data not of that universe, I'd say the characters just became wards of the State.

^^^

What he said.

 

[Rick]

Greek, Tom, not Latin. The official written language of the Roman Empire may have been Latin, but the lingua franca of the Empire was Greek.

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

Greek, Tom, not Latin. The official written language of the Roman Empire may have been Latin, but the lingua franca of the Empire was Greek.

I'm not talking about the late Christian Greek Eastern Roman Empire called Byzantium, who's capital was called Constantinople. Most people are not as familiar with that Empire as the one popularized by Hollywood. The Roman Empire changed quite a bit, it evolved and became more medeaval as time progressed, I'm talking about the Early Empire, the one established by Augustus Caesar in the wake of the Assassination of Julius Caesar in 44 BC. The Roman Empire evolved into something quite different before it went into decline. The Western Roman Empire fell first, that spoke Latin, the Greek Eastern Roman Empire lasted for another thousand years, before the Turks conquered it. The Late Roman Empire was more pathetic, less vigorous and its Emperors were more corrupt and frequently assassinated, or simply crippled because of a law that said a cripple could not be emperor as his disability showed that he did not have the favor of God. Deposed Emperors were frequently blinded when they were not killed in order to prevent the from becoming Emperor again. Also the late Emperors were hereditary, much like the Kings of later Europe, the Early Emperors were not, Each Emperor designated his successor, whether he was related or not, and groomed him for power, or in case there was no successor, the Senate chose an Emperor. The Early Empire was more succesful in conquering and expanding that the late Empire was. The Late Empire is more like the Third Imperium, the Early Empire is quite different.

 

[Condottiere]

You have to assume that the Roman Empire doesn't collapse, and doesn't really evolve culturally, socially, politically, but remains the dominant military and economic power, possibly be recognizing and monopolizing gunpowder technology very early on.

And socio-politically, you do have classes and castes like slaves, freemen, citizens, proletariat, plebeians, patricians, equestrians (knights), and senators.