High Guard is Here!

[moriturimax]

Wait - you guys couldn't see the little kink on the right of the K?
And I thought my eyesight was bad.

Curses.. looked again and yeah absolutely legible.. I had some lint over where the crossbar in the K has the two small curves... (ben steins monotone voice) sorry for the uproar.

 

[moriturimax]

Regarding the Massive Ships rule, as ships breakaway into different combinations of pieces, (say 150,000 ton ship that can break into 3 x 50,000 ton hulls) do HP per ton get recalculated for each combination?

Or do the individual ships have proportionate shares of the combined HP by the total tonnage?

 

[GarethL]

Abbreviations in the belt mining chapter:

This whole section uses letters as multiple abbreviations in a very confusing way

For example, 'C' can refer to the zone (C zone), composition (carbonaceous) or the result on the scan potential chart (crystaline).

This can be extremely confusing, especially in places like pg. 76 where the tables have no key.



Also, on pg. 76, under asteroid size, how do we interpret the die roll? 2d6 tons?

 

[arcador]

I agree, the abbreviations make it difficult to follow the tables, especially for first-timers. Same letters mean different things. Also, it's not clear how the end yield of the asteroid translated into the commodities, and it what portions.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Regarding the Massive Ships rule, as ships breakaway into different combinations of pieces, (say 150,000 ton ship that can break into 3 x 50,000 ton hulls) do HP per ton get recalculated for each combination?

Or do the individual ships have proportionate shares of the combined HP by the total tonnage?

As far as I understand all sections together is a single Ship, so should get Hull as that. A 150000 dT ship divided into 3 sections should have 100000 Hull. I fail to see that each section could have anything else than 100000 / 3 ≈ 33333 Hull each.

This is of course only my opinion, nothing official.

 

[alex_greene]

"to being used as a tactical map during boarding actions where every bulkhead and iris valve can become an important objective as ruthless invaders forge yjeir way into the most vital areas of a ship."

Don't know who the Forge Yjeir are, but they sound terrifyingly ruthless to me.

I knew I should have spent more time typo hunting during the High Guard playtest.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Regarding the Massive Ships rule, as ships breakaway into different combinations of pieces, (say 150,000 ton ship that can break into 3 x 50,000 ton hulls) do HP per ton get recalculated for each combination?

Or do the individual ships have proportionate shares of the combined HP by the total tonnage?

As far as I understand all sections together is a single Ship, so should get Hull as that. A 150000 dT ship divided into 3 sections should have 100000 Hull. I fail to see that each section could have anything else than 100000 / 3 ≈ 33333 Hull each.

This is of course only my opinion, nothing official.

Hmm, so we now design BR/tender combos as a 600,000t ship which breaks into lets say six 50,000t riders and a 200,000t jump spine...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Hmm, so we now design BR/tender combos as a 600,000t ship which breaks into lets say six 50,000t riders and a 200,000t jump spine...

I don't like it. See thread Breakaway Fighter for more commentary.

Also the Breakaway Connectors are not cheap, Docking Clamps are much cheaper, so we at least pay something for the privilege.

 

[allanimal]

While checking out my ship design spreadsheet, I found some apparent bugs in the ship stats...
Tigress Dreadnought, 500 kTons

1) One weapon system is 22x Medium Bay Energy Inefficient Tractor Beams, listed as 2200 tons and 3300 MCr.

Tonnage is OK, but cost is off. A Meadium Bay Tractor Beam is 30 MCr.

The Prototype (TL -1, 1 disadvantage) adds 500% to the cost --> 30 MCr + 500% = 180 MCr, 22x of these bad boys is 3960 MCr, not 3300 MCr.

It looks like the chart only shows a 400% increase in cost.... Probably whoever coded the spreadsheet saw 500% and did a x5, but since it is a 500% increase, it should be x6.

2) For the 100x triple beam laser turrets, the normal price of this would be 250 MCr, but it says it has "long Range", which implies an advanced weapon, which adds 10% to the cost, for 275 MCr. However the listed cost is 312.5 MCr which implies "Very Advanced", with a +25% cost increase. Which is it? And if Very advanced, is it merely "Long Range" x2, or some other advantage.

3) For the 100x intense focus particle beam turrets, the listed cost is 105 MCr. Now, a turret-mounted particle beam alone costs 4 MCr, once you tack on the 0.2 MCr for the turret, and then add the 25% for Very Advanced (Intense Focus requires 2 advantages), I think the cost should be 525 MCr. Not sure how that 105 MCr was derived.

4) Not an error per se, but the Command Bridge is listed under systems. It seems more logical to list it with the bridge itself.

5) Power Plant Armoured Bulkhead is listed as 3200 tons, but the power plant is 22 kTons, and armored Bulkheads take only 10% of the space or the protected item. The cost based on this size is obviously incorrect, too.

6) Full Hangar Cost: 0.2 MCr per ton * 15 x 50 ton fighters *2 = 300 MCr, not the 3 MCr listed.

7) Staterooms: They cost 0.5 MCr each, and there are 4619 installed, which should be 2,309.5 MCr, but 2,182 MCr is listed.

8) High Staterooms: The cost listed is the 2309.5 from above, instead of the 2.4 MCr it should be.

9) Common Areas: Cost is 0.1 MCr/ton, there are 4262 tons listed, but 426.15 MCr - should be 426.2 or else subtract a half a ton of common area.

 

[AndrewW]

4) Not an error per se, but the Command Bridge is listed under systems. It seems more logical to list it with the bridge itself.

In this case, it's a separate component, independent of the ships bridge. A command bridge can be done either way. It can be added on to the main bridge which allows less room (total includes the ships bridge), or made a separate component which is what was done in this case, so no it didn't go under the bridge.

Will look at the rest.

 

[GarethL]

The troop transport seems to lack a crew entry (unless it is intended to be automated or remotely piloted I guess),

As does the express boat,

The key for the gionetti (esp. the spinal mount) seems wrong,

 

[moriturimax]

Regarding the Massive Ships rule, as ships breakaway into different combinations of pieces, (say 150,000 ton ship that can break into 3 x 50,000 ton hulls) do HP per ton get recalculated for each combination?

Or do the individual ships have proportionate shares of the combined HP by the total tonnage?

As far as I understand all sections together is a single Ship, so should get Hull as that. A 150000 dT ship divided into 3 sections should have 100000 Hull. I fail to see that each section could have anything else than 100000 / 3 ≈ 33333 Hull each.

This is of course only my opinion, nothing official.

That does seem to be the easiest/logical choice... assuming that the improved structure goes with each section and is not a property of everything being solidly connected together. I was just wondering in the back of my mind if it was a kind of 'the sum is greater than the individual parts."

 

[AndrewW]

1) One weapon system is 22x Medium Bay Energy Inefficient Tractor Beams, listed as 2200 tons and 3300 MCr.

Tonnage is OK, but cost is off. A Meadium Bay Tractor Beam is 30 MCr.

The Prototype (TL -1, 1 disadvantage) adds 500% to the cost --> 30 MCr + 500% = 180 MCr, 22x of these bad boys is 3960 MCr, not 3300 MCr.

It looks like the chart only shows a 400% increase in cost.... Probably whoever coded the spreadsheet saw 500% and did a x5, but since it is a 500% increase, it should be x6.

Yup.

2) For the 100x triple beam laser turrets, the normal price of this would be 250 MCr, but it says it has "long Range", which implies an advanced weapon, which adds 10% to the cost, for 275 MCr. However the listed cost is 312.5 MCr which implies "Very Advanced", with a +25% cost increase. Which is it? And if Very advanced, is it merely "Long Range" x2, or some other advantage.

It's correct, long range uses two advantages, so is Very Advanced.

3) For the 100x intense focus particle beam turrets, the listed cost is 105 MCr. Now, a turret-mounted particle beam alone costs 4 MCr, once you tack on the 0.2 MCr for the turret, and then add the 25% for Very Advanced (Intense Focus requires 2 advantages), I think the cost should be 525 MCr. Not sure how that 105 MCr was derived.

Error on the spreadsheet, calculated the cost multiplier by .25 instead of 1.25.

5) Power Plant Armoured Bulkhead is listed as 3200 tons, but the power plant is 22 kTons, and armored Bulkheads take only 10% of the space or the protected item. The cost based on this size is obviously incorrect, too.

Calculated correct in the figures, but there was an update and the size of the power plant changed and it didn't get put in as an update. (still my fault in this case though).

6) Full Hangar Cost: 0.2 MCr per ton * 15 x 50 ton fighters *2 = 300 MCr, not the 3 MCr listed.

Errr, wrong cell. Think when the updated was done somehow the spreadsheet got changed to the number of fighters instead of tonnage. (But should have noticed that one was too low anyways, probably just looking at too many ships lately).

7) Staterooms: They cost 0.5 MCr each, and there are 4619 installed, which should be 2,309.5 MCr, but 2,182 MCr is listed.

The number of staterooms also changed, alas this one got missed when updating the PDF.

8) High Staterooms: The cost listed is the 2309.5 from above, instead of the 2.4 MCr it should be.

Dunno on this one, error in the PDF.

9) Common Areas: Cost is 0.1 MCr/ton, there are 4262 tons listed, but 426.15 MCr - should be 426.2 or else subtract a half a ton of common area.

Just the listed tonnage was off (rounding issue on the spreadsheet, was correct, just not displayed correctly).

 

[GarethL]

I think the arakoine is supposed to have nuclear dampeners x9

 

[moriturimax]

It always surprises me in this day and age that when something intensive like High Guard is put out, that the spreadsheet to go with it isn't also made available for download. Granted it may not be the most understandable thing to many sophonts, but it would be something that would let those of us with the mindset of trying to design anything using these heavy math oriented systems wrap their heads around.

After all, we're all complaining about the end result without seeing how those numbers ended up on the page. Sort of like trying to fix a recipe for an awesome meal that we can't seem to get the taste right after cooking it with just the video showing the cook making it with no audio.

Cheers, crossing fingers and hoping you guys might eventually release it into the wild.

THANKS TONS for the really heavy help here about problems.

 

[AndrewW]

It always surprises me in this day and age that when something intensive like High Guard is put out, that the spreadsheet to go with it isn't also made available for download. Granted it may not be the most understandable thing to many sophonts, but it would be something that would let those of us with the mindset of trying to design anything using these heavy math oriented systems wrap their heads around.

It's nothing fancy, most stuff is still done manually. Just put in the cost modifiers for example by hand and formula's need to be changed for tons/cost of armour if the armour type changes and so forth.

 

[AndrewW]

THANKS TONS for the really heavy help here about problems.

And a thanks to everyone else looking over things and finding things we've missed (some have lead to other corrections that where also needed but not mentioned).

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello GarethL,

I think the arakoine is supposed to have nuclear dampeners x9

From CT Supplement 9 copyright 1981 7th printing p. 29 the Arakoine Class Striker Cruiser mounts a Factor 9 Nuclear Damper and a Factor 9 Meson Screen.

Unfortunately, I have not figured out how they are converted into Mongoose HG 2e. If the Meson Screen is x 9 shouldn't Nuclear Dampers also be x 9?

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello AnotherDibert,

Thank you for your reply

HG 2e Introduction Chapter pp. 2-7 PDF pp. 3-8

On HG 2e Definitions p. 3/PDF p. 4 right column.

Which category does a CT modular cutter fit in Small Craft or Military Craft?

A Spacecraft can fit in several categories. The categories are probably fuzzy and not sharply defined. The Modular Cutter is a Small Craft.

Oops, I goofed and my Military Craft should have been Military Ship.

A 50 d-ton modular cutter is as pointed out classified as a small craft since it is under 100 d-tons. However, according to the definitions a "cutter" is a military ship which as you pointed out below is a vessel >= 100 displacement tons.

From the CT Universe a 50 d-ton modular cutter is used to transport cargo, passengers, be armed, or do just about anything depending on the module attached.

Is the Military Craft Cutter jump capable?

Cutter: An armed Ship that is both small and cheap...
Ship: A Spacecraft of 100 tons or more.
Traditionally in Traveller the Navy and civilians use different definitions if the term Ship, but we do not see that here. So a military Cutter could be jump capable, or not.

Had I not translated ship into craft I could have avoided the question since by the definition they are >= 100 d-tons.
Thank you for putting me back on track.

IIRC Classic Traveller has three broad classes which are small craft, starships, and non-starships. In the case of starships and non-starships they are all >= 100 d-tons which covers both civilian and military designs.

Carrier Squadron p.3/PDF p. 4 right column indicates that a carrier used to transport craft between 10 and 30 tons is defined as a fighter carrier. On p. 4/PDF p. 5 right hand column Small Craft lists a fighter as being less than 50 tons.

"Fighter: A small, short-ranged fast combat vessel, normally displacing less than fifty tons."
It's normally less than 50 dT, but sometimes bigger.

"When the craft being carried are in the ten to thirty ton range, the ship is a fighter carrier."
We have a Light Carrrier (sic) on p173, a Strike Carrier on p200, and a Fleet Carrier on p204. Some of them carry Heavy Fighters from p102.
They may not be officially Fighter Carriers, but they are still Carriers that carry Fighters.

The issues I have, which is not really a big item, are (1) the definition is that a fighter is normally less than 50 d-tons when from the CT universe and replicated in Mongoose HG 2e the largest fighter is 50 d-tons. In my opinion any small craft 50 d-tons or less designated a fighter and is assigned to a carrier the carrier is per CarRon a "fighter carrier."

Thank you again for helping me out.

 

[AndrewW]

Unfortunately, I have not figured out how they are converted into Mongoose HG 2e. If the Meson Screen is x 9 shouldn't Nuclear Dampers also be x 9?

They are, the x9 was left out in the PDF.

Not really a straight conversion but that's what we have.