High Guard Barracks vs. Staterooms
- Thread starter Colin
- Start date
snrdg121408
Mongoose
Morning Collin,
Besides the cost there is the consideration of the ship's function or purpose. A civilian ship designed to carry cargo will have staterooms that house 2 to maybe 4 persons for most of the crew and the senior officers will have single berth cabins.
Take the same vessel but built for the military and the standards change. The Spacehand Recruits, Spacehand Apprentices and Able Spacehands (E1 - E3) will probably be in a barracks, in naval speak a berthing compartment, broken down by department and divisions. PO3 to PO1 (E4 - E6) may have their own berthing compartments or maybe lumped in with the E1 to E3 crewman. The CPOs (E7 - E9) will usually have a berthing compartment set aside for themselves. Under normal conditions the maximum number is 4 bunks to a tier and with an average of 30 to 40 bunks for E6 and below. CPOs generally have 12 bunks.
In Trident submarines they have 4-person enlisted bunkrooms in the missile compartment. I'm not sure if all the enlisted is housed in this manner. In older submarines, both missile and fast attack, bunks are placed in tiers for the E1 to E6. E7 to E9 still have a separate csection called the Goat locker, er I men, CPO quarters.
Junior Officers will be berthed in at most a 4 officer stateroom. Mid-ranking officers can be in a 4 person stateroom but most of the time they will be in a 3 or 2 person stateroom. Senior Officers are in single staterooms.
When talking about warships the weapons, power, and other systems have the highest consideration, with the senior officers having the next level of consideration, followed by junior officers and finally the enlisted E9 and below. The enlisted also have a priority system.
Here is a link to a copy of an available for public viewing of the USN standard titled "Shipboard Habitability Design Criteria Manual" that can be downloaded as a pdf. which acn be found here: http://www.habitability.net/WebData/Shipboard%20Habitability%20Design%20Criteria%20Manual.pdf. I wish I could claim having found the above resource, but I'll give credit to Christopher Trash.
Hope this helps.
Besides the cost there is the consideration of the ship's function or purpose. A civilian ship designed to carry cargo will have staterooms that house 2 to maybe 4 persons for most of the crew and the senior officers will have single berth cabins.
Take the same vessel but built for the military and the standards change. The Spacehand Recruits, Spacehand Apprentices and Able Spacehands (E1 - E3) will probably be in a barracks, in naval speak a berthing compartment, broken down by department and divisions. PO3 to PO1 (E4 - E6) may have their own berthing compartments or maybe lumped in with the E1 to E3 crewman. The CPOs (E7 - E9) will usually have a berthing compartment set aside for themselves. Under normal conditions the maximum number is 4 bunks to a tier and with an average of 30 to 40 bunks for E6 and below. CPOs generally have 12 bunks.
In Trident submarines they have 4-person enlisted bunkrooms in the missile compartment. I'm not sure if all the enlisted is housed in this manner. In older submarines, both missile and fast attack, bunks are placed in tiers for the E1 to E6. E7 to E9 still have a separate csection called the Goat locker, er I men, CPO quarters.
Junior Officers will be berthed in at most a 4 officer stateroom. Mid-ranking officers can be in a 4 person stateroom but most of the time they will be in a 3 or 2 person stateroom. Senior Officers are in single staterooms.
When talking about warships the weapons, power, and other systems have the highest consideration, with the senior officers having the next level of consideration, followed by junior officers and finally the enlisted E9 and below. The enlisted also have a priority system.
Here is a link to a copy of an available for public viewing of the USN standard titled "Shipboard Habitability Design Criteria Manual" that can be downloaded as a pdf. which acn be found here: http://www.habitability.net/WebData/Shipboard%20Habitability%20Design%20Criteria%20Manual.pdf. I wish I could claim having found the above resource, but I'll give credit to Christopher Trash.
Hope this helps.
Dave Chase
Mongoose
I would also suggest the consideration of culture and racial needs.
Some cultures touching is not seen as desirable and in others daily contact is part of life.
In some races this could change how much space is needed.
Take the K'kree for example. In the race book they need 48t per creature as compared to a human at 4t. Even if you assumed that they were 4 times the size of a Human (which is close) they would only need 16t per creature.
Maybe a mole/mouse like creature that has space travel would have complete different needs (or less needs).
Dave Chase
Some cultures touching is not seen as desirable and in others daily contact is part of life.
In some races this could change how much space is needed.
Take the K'kree for example. In the race book they need 48t per creature as compared to a human at 4t. Even if you assumed that they were 4 times the size of a Human (which is close) they would only need 16t per creature.
Maybe a mole/mouse like creature that has space travel would have complete different needs (or less needs).
Dave Chase
snrdg121408
Mongoose
Hello rust,
Sorry I was not clear in my post about the civilian crew stateroom. While in the service I was invited on a civilian merchant that brought supplies to Guam in the Late 1970s. The crew were two to a stateroom that may have been a little bigger in dtons than the standard Traveller stateroom. I also had the pleasure of being invited on to a Sealift Command supply ship which also had the merchant seamen two to a staterooms. Of course the higher up the chain you are the bigger the cabin for the most part. Usually the captain has the largest cabin that diubles as an office. The First officer also has a large stateroom.
Please note that the only major difference between todays ships is the medium in whiche they travel water versus space. The purpose of a civilian or military vessel is to get cargo from one point to any number of other points. Under most circumstances a civilian ship is designed to get people or other goods over a specific distance at a profit. The military's cargo is usually a bit more lethal to something ot somebody on the other end.
Don't forget the number of staterooms and how many bodies per stateroom is dictated by ship size and the amount/type of cargo being carried by a civilian merchant. A passenger liner is going to optimize staterooms for the guests and senior officers. AS one moves down the crew chain the staterooms get more bodies and in some cases you get a bunkroom or berthing compartment.
I can see the senior non-officer crew members maybe in a single stateroom of 2 dton,s but not the merchant equivalent military E1 to E3 and maybe not even E4 to E6.
Of course the layout is up to the designer and my comment was away to provide another reason why there is a barracks option in HG.
Sorry I was not clear in my post about the civilian crew stateroom. While in the service I was invited on a civilian merchant that brought supplies to Guam in the Late 1970s. The crew were two to a stateroom that may have been a little bigger in dtons than the standard Traveller stateroom. I also had the pleasure of being invited on to a Sealift Command supply ship which also had the merchant seamen two to a staterooms. Of course the higher up the chain you are the bigger the cabin for the most part. Usually the captain has the largest cabin that diubles as an office. The First officer also has a large stateroom.
Please note that the only major difference between todays ships is the medium in whiche they travel water versus space. The purpose of a civilian or military vessel is to get cargo from one point to any number of other points. Under most circumstances a civilian ship is designed to get people or other goods over a specific distance at a profit. The military's cargo is usually a bit more lethal to something ot somebody on the other end.
Don't forget the number of staterooms and how many bodies per stateroom is dictated by ship size and the amount/type of cargo being carried by a civilian merchant. A passenger liner is going to optimize staterooms for the guests and senior officers. AS one moves down the crew chain the staterooms get more bodies and in some cases you get a bunkroom or berthing compartment.
I can see the senior non-officer crew members maybe in a single stateroom of 2 dton,s but not the merchant equivalent military E1 to E3 and maybe not even E4 to E6.
Of course the layout is up to the designer and my comment was away to provide another reason why there is a barracks option in HG.
rust said:
snrdg121408
Mongoose
Howdy Dave Chase,
I agree there are other factors that need to be taken into account when determining accommodations for the various folks that are part of the Traveller Universe. Again my apologies for being unclear in my post on this topic.
I agree there are other factors that need to be taken into account when determining accommodations for the various folks that are part of the Traveller Universe. Again my apologies for being unclear in my post on this topic.
Dave Chase said:
Dave Chase
Mongoose
snrdg121408 said:
Nope, you weren't unclear here. And no need to aplogize, that's what questions are for. If we werent interested then no one would post.
Dave Chase
No reason to be sorry.snrdg121408 said:
I just consider it possible that civilian ships - in the very long run perhaps
even military ships - might introduce single staterooms (although hardly
as luxurious as the Star Trek ones) for all permanent crew members, es-
pecially if this does not require more volume than double staterooms.
However, I am also aware of the psychological reasons for double state-
rooms, and therefore consider it just as likely that single staterooms will
remain an exception because of this.
As for the barracks, in my setting I see them mainly as a temporary me-
thod to transport huge numbers of people, for example soldiers, colonists
and prisoners.
On a deckplan I would add some luxuries, like a lounge or a gym, to any
number of staterooms, but I would not add anything like this to barracks,
at least not more than the most spartan multipurpose area.
rust said:
If you're transporting people you want to be in good fettle at the end of the journey (I'm mostly thinking of soldiers, though it could also apply to colonists) you probably want to think about putting at least some common "rec space" into your displacement allowances. Otherwise the gropos will be playing handball (or worse) in your companionways...
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
Also, just because you put a "stateroom" with double occupancy on a ship. You could easily interpret that as "2 small staterooms".
Also, just because you buy 4 staterooms for 8 people, you could do your design with 1 big room for all 8 people.
So, what you are buying with the Stateroom is not necessarily 4 walls, a bunk, a locker and some common space but you are buying an AREA for that person to occupy. HOW that space is configured is subject to interpretation.
I usually design with the following assumptions: Officers get single staterooms (even if they are only 2 tons) and enlisted get multi-person staterooms. Whether it is 2 per room or more is up to the designer. In all of these cases the total tonnage per person is the same.
Passengers get 4 tons per person, twice that of most crewmembers, but they still might be in multi-person rooms (couples and families for example).
Also, just because you buy 4 staterooms for 8 people, you could do your design with 1 big room for all 8 people.
So, what you are buying with the Stateroom is not necessarily 4 walls, a bunk, a locker and some common space but you are buying an AREA for that person to occupy. HOW that space is configured is subject to interpretation.
I usually design with the following assumptions: Officers get single staterooms (even if they are only 2 tons) and enlisted get multi-person staterooms. Whether it is 2 per room or more is up to the designer. In all of these cases the total tonnage per person is the same.
Passengers get 4 tons per person, twice that of most crewmembers, but they still might be in multi-person rooms (couples and families for example).
There wil be cultural factors in this too. A culture that prizes personal space very highly might allocate as much space as possible to individual staterooms and have cramped shared spaces, while a culture that is highly community oriented might have cramped bunks for sleeping, but spacious communal areas.
Simon Hibbs
Simon Hibbs
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
Simon, to me that is how you tell a Solomani from a Vilani design.
Vilani designs use bunks and big communal spaces.
Solomani designs use big staterooms and small communal spaces.
Vilani designs use bunks and big communal spaces.
Solomani designs use big staterooms and small communal spaces.
