Hey! Lets discuss the G'Koth!

Locutus9956

Mongoose
Lets talk about reasons for and against including the G'Koth transport cruiser in the standard Narn list in 1st edition (via S&P article).

Discuss!
 
Here are Morgoth's proposed stats, for those who couldn't find them:

Speed: 6 Damage: 40/11 Craft: 1 Gorith flight
Turn: 1/45 Crew: 45/12 Special Rules: Jump Point
Hull: 5 Troops: 2 In Service: 2236+
Weapon Range Arc A Special
Medium Laser Cannon 18 B 4 AP, Beam, Double Damage
Twin Particle Array 8 F 6 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 A 6 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 P 6 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 S 6 Twin-Linked, Weak
Light Pulse Cannon 8 F 4
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 4
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 4
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 4


Hiffano's and Burger's combined points "for":

1) It has existing stats in a mongoose created product
2) It has a ready made model available
3) G'Quans look cool (ok, this isn't the best argument, but I like it)
4) Raid has been stated as the achilles heal of Narn, and Battle isn't great either, a ship that Narn players believe is pretty good apart from speed would partly adress this perceived weakness
5) **Censored**
6) it's not unbalancing, and it's not unheard of for varients across 3 levels
7) It will lead to more fleet diversity, rather than the "Bat Squad" fleet we usually see
8 ) New players or tournament/demo onlookers will recognize it and be more tempted to get into the game
 
Hiffano said:
1) It has existing stats in a mongoose created product
Agreed
2) It has a ready made model available
Agreed
3) G'Quans look cool (ok, this isn't the best argument, but I like it)
Agreed.....thats partly what gets people using them. EA are a good example
4) Raid has been stated as the achilles heal of Narn, and Battle isn't great either, a ship that Narn players believe is pretty good apart from speed would partly adress this perceived weakness
Agreed....Narn do need a boost in Raid, they are only strong in Skirmish and War
5) It will annoy EP.... (this one is said very much tongue in cheek!)
Don't care.....just want to stop people moaning about the Bat Squads
6) it's not unbalancing, and it's not unheard of for varients across 3 levels
Agreed
 
and here is are counter arguements against inclusion of the G'Koth in 1st Edition ACTA

Reasons AGAINST the G'Koth (in 1st edition)

1) It has been a purposeful design decision in 1st edition to balance fleets at different levels. Narn excel at Skirmish but have reasonable choices at Raid...they don't need to excel at Raid as well and this will balance the fleet as a whole ACROSS PLs and not just at 5 point raid.

2) While I too would like iconic ships to feature, it should *mean* something when they come out on the table. That arguement could naturally lead to a Patrol and even Skirmish level variant of a G'Quan...after all why not? The iconic ships are cool looking but the other ships have a role to play too, we don't need one model/token to rule them all syndrome.

Feel free to add to this...
 
and reasons FOR are

1) stats exists, morgs above just up the speed I think
2) A model exists, what narn player doesn't own at least 1 model of this fantastci ship
3) It is iconic in appearance, and the G'Quan rarely makes a touney entry, the G'Koth might
4) It fills a role in the narn fleet, a beam armed ship at raid(yet it's not as powerful as some other raid ships)
5) it is not broken, unbalanced, to powerful, too weak.
 
and to be fair, I like point 2 on the against thread. Heck i see a Primus come onto the table, no matter which varient it is, it's worrying. but then even the g'quan doesn't scare people as it did Pre SFOS. I want people to fear my ships damnit!
 
In counter to Hash point 2 of why not, I'd say that theres a limit really, having a varient 1 level below the main 1 isnt unreasonable but more than that is pushing it. That said its not unprecedented:

Ladies and gentlement I give you: the Solarhawk, raid level varient of a patrol level ship! ;)

But overall it would be nice to have them make more of an apearance. Personally If I was playing Narn I WOULD use G'Quans anyway simply BECAUSE theyre iconic ships, even if its not wise to do so (hell I often use Sharlins in 5pt raid games for that very reason!)
 
that said, i hope the Vorchan gets an upgrade, so it could concevabley take a Larger ship! (I love the Vorchan model, and it saddens me that I never see anyone use it)
 
Again in counter to Hash's point 2, I'd agree this is true for Sharlin or Omega or Primus. But we see G'Quan's blowing up all the time on the show. So a Raid variant will add to accuracy of fluff :lol:
 
You have no idea how much the Vorchan saddens Adam, he owns 32 of the buggers and takes them out mostly to demonstrate ship explosions :lol:
 
Burger said:
Again in counter to Hash's point 2, I'd agree this is true for Sharlin or Omega or Primus. But we see G'Quan's blowing up all the time on the show. So a Raid variant will add to accuracy of fluff :lol:
the Alternative (which i suspect may be hated) is drop the G'Quan to raid, with relevant stat changes, while moving the G'Quonth and G'Tal to Battle
 
hiffano said:
Burger said:
Again in counter to Hash's point 2, I'd agree this is true for Sharlin or Omega or Primus. But we see G'Quan's blowing up all the time on the show. So a Raid variant will add to accuracy of fluff :lol:
the Alternative (which i suspect may be hated) is drop the G'Quan to raid, with relevant stat changes, while moving the G'Quonth and G'Tal to Battle

That would be drastic, and I fear the nerfing it woudl recieve would be horrendous :(
 
We see Narn ships blowing up all the time on the show and we never see the Skirmish Squad of Death either ;)

To be fair the G'Quans you see blow up get ambushed by 4 - 5 Armageddon level points (Shadow Ships) or is fairly beat up (crippled) to begin with anyway vs. Centauri outside B5 station as I recall.
 
true, true, their are so many possible inconsitencies in the show that it is hard to accurately judge relative strenghts of ships. We assume that the omega is superior to the hyperion, and for whatever reason we assume that the Omega and G'Quan are relatively matched, with a primus and so on, yet we see every man and his dog blow up the G'Quan.... most be lots of crits
 
Ive always though of Narn fleets as lumbering big dreadnought type of tactics, rather than wolf pack tactics with skirmish ships. That always struck me as the Centauri's thing and yet Mongoose seems to have more or less inverted this in ACTA....
 
Frankly, yes :P

And while your at it boost the Vorchan/Demos and nerf the Primus Beam team. But thats all another story and were getting dangerously close to talking about a certain upcoming publication.

Iks nay on the econd editionsay ;)
 
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