Have Rules, No Stats...

[BuShips]

And a grenade can also be used to fish with :lol: . I'd like to see Mongoose add the 9M119 Refleks (AT-11 Sniper) to the game, mostly because it adds a little "rock, paper, scissors" option for tanks to engage helicopters (and maybe just a V-22 or two, lol).

 

[Hiromoon]

It's there...but you'd only use it if you had...well...nothing in the realm of real AA weapons.

 

[BuShips]

It's there...but you'd only use it if you had...well...nothing in the realm of real AA weapons.

Yes, I agree that it should not be too useful, but it might keep the chopper pilots honest when they don't see any real AAA assets on the table.

 

[Hiromoon]

What do you think? One-shot?

 

[weasel_fierce]

well, it seems there'll be plenty of rpg guys running around, and with mini's wargames usually fought at close range, Im sure we'll have plenty of burning heli's

 

[Secesh]

USA! USA! Please Hiro.

 

[Kenrick Dargoth]

USA! USA! Please Hiro. :mrgreen:














We are bad

 

[Zarr]

you can crunch the topic anyway you wish...but the Type99 should have a anti-air capability...

 

[Hiromoon]

Just because it has a missile designed more for anti-tank that can be fired at helicopters?

 

[DM]

Just because it has a missile designed more for anti-tank that can be fired at helicopters?

That would actually seem to be reasonable, provided doctrine allowed for its use. Why prevent existing capabilities of a system in the rules if that capability exists and it is intended to be used as such?

 

[Hiromoon]

Well it's not just that tank that has that capability, but you have to keep in mind that it's not it's intended purpose...

 

[Poko]

well, if the rules for SST are anything to go by, then the T-99 will be able to shoot the helos. and because the aid ammo/missile is not per se "AA", it will hit just like any other ordinary weapon against a flyer. simple isn't it ? :wink:

 

[DM]

you have to keep in mind that it's not it's intended purpose...

Military history is replete with examples of weapon systems that worked well outwith their intended purpose

Also worth remembering that in today's cash-strapped environment there is more of a drive to "swing" (multi purpose) weapons. Land attack use of Harpoon and Exocet spring to mind

 

[Zarr]

Hiromoon...

not only does the Type99 have a main weapon system...it's 125mm smooth bore missle launcher...that is capable of engaging aircraft...

it also has the JD-3 weapons system suite...which is an intergrated LWR(laser warning reciver) AND LSDW(laser self defense system)...

the LWR alerts the crew that a weapons sysetm is designating them...and locates it...the LWR then commands the LSDW to engage...damaging the attakers laser optics and the gunner vison...that means it has a SECOND system that can engage enemy attack helicopters...

 

[Hiromoon]

Zarr....the weapon it fires can engage Helicopters up to a range of 5km. and the LWR and LSDW are nice and all, but that's not a true weapons system, it's a Dazzler system.

 

[Zarr]

OK...Hiromoon...you are the expert...but I do see you use the "it's not a true weapons system" excuse...an awful lot to push aside errors made in game research...

if you think that is just a "dazzaler system"...you are mistaken...

 

[Hiromoon]

ACTIVE LASER COUNTERMEASURES

The Type 99 tank is fitted with a JD-3 integrated laser countermeasures suite, which consists of a laser rangefinder, a laser warning receiver (LWR), and an active laser self-defence weapon (LSDW).

Unlike contemporary Russian active tank self-defence systems such as Drozd, Drozd-2, and Arena, which launch projectiles to disable or "shoot-down" incoming anti-tank missiles and projectiles, the Chinese-developed laser self-defence system uses a high-powered laser to directly attack the enemy weapon's optics and gunner.

When the LWR detected that the tank is being illuminated by an enemy range-finding or weapon-guidance laser, the system warns the tank crew and the LSDW is employed against the source of the enemy laser. The procedure of the laser weapon would first use a low-powered beam to locate the optics of the enemy weapon. Once the enemy weapon was located, the power level of the laser would be immediately and dramatically increased. Such an attack would disable the guidance optics of the enemy weapon and/or damage the eyesight of the enemy gunner.

The available photos of the Type 99 have also confirmed that the laser weapon can be elevated to a higher angle than the tank's main gun, indicating that the engagement of attack helicopters is possible.

Oh yes, it's a dazzler system, Zarr. That's taken from the Sino Defense website.

Here's a little bit on the JD-3 itself:

The Chinese opted to equip their new Type 98 with a different countermeasure suite, based mainly on defeating ATGM, by the use of directed high power laser. A typical is the JD-3 "Dazzler" system comprises of laser warning devices, a dome shaped sensor installed on the turret's roof-top, and a box shaped Laser Self Defense Weapon (LSDW) which "fires" a laser beam at the illuminating source, either a tank gunner, helicopter or missile launcher. The system employs two modes of operation – the low power mode is used at the general direction of the threat, in a search pattern designed to locate the target's optics. Once locked on a target, the laser switches to high power mode, to defeat the target by blinding the operator or saturating its electro-optical circuits.

http://www.defense-update.com/products/d/dazzler.htm

 

[DM]

Once locked on a target, the laser switches to high power mode, to defeat the target by blinding the operator or saturating its electro-optical circuits.

Looks like the description gven would result in a system kill against some weapon systems. Looks like a good reason for including it

 

[Zarr]

and so...

some sort of anti ground attack aircraft should be represented in the game...it has 2 systems that are capable of engaging said aircraft...

you know...I think you guys at Mongoose should have stuck with fantasy / sc-fi...then you can make up what ever you want...but with this game you are dealing with facts...

 

[britneyfan97]

OK this is easy. You just need to implement a rule (official or not: i don't care) that takes into account the 'dazzler systems' effects.
Giving attacking helicopters an opposed check when they target or are targetted by a JD-3 equipped vehicle would be my choice. Since many (read: not all) attack helicopters have 2 crewpersons it can still carry on after being 'dazzled' but it's laser targetting system is damaged and so it takes on all kinds of negative modifiers, and recieves negative modifiers to movement/shooting as the gunner or pilot is busy rubbing his freshly burned retinas.

But please bear in mind... Just because a country has such systems does not mean they can field very many of them.