Grandmaster series - what needs fixing?

[Drake_NZ]

With the Grandmaster series about to start being released, I was wondering what issues or problems (or typos) need to be fixed? (in the way that Zakhan Kimar and the Chaos Master have been changed).

A handful that come to mind:

Global changes:

Clarification as to which items can be carried forward to further books (especially the issue of the silver bracers and korlinium scabbard disappearing from the list for 2 books where they would very handy!). Its probably too late but it would have been nice to add one or two items to that list (perhaps the bronin vest)

The sections where you roll d10 and there is an unavoidable chance of death are just too frequent and hard. There are a few in bk 14, some in bk 15 (jumping the pit), a horrific one in bk 16 (avoiding detection I think, where there is a 30% to 40% chance of instant death) and a few in bk 17

Book 16
The riddle that is currently impossible needs to be tweaked to make it actually possible!!!

Book 17 needs some tweaking:

The most obvious change is lowering Ixia’s stats to make him a little more bearable.

Another point is clarifying exactly when you can use the Sommerswerd and when you can’t.

Can anybody else suggest any other needed tweaks or amendments?

 

[beowuuf]

There will be a list of errata in the Project Aon releases of the books. My understanding is that these are used to base editing the Mongoose releases.

 

[SnowShadow]

SPOILER

I agree with the difficulty in fighting Ixiataaga Bk 17. His stats are hard even if you roll 9 for CS; I hate the fact that Lone Wolf can only have a maximum base CS of 24 if you complete Bks1-12 whereas if Bk 13 is your first you have a Maximum CS of 34 - it means LW is dependent on such Special Items as Sommerswerd and Silver Bracers to be on an equal footing - they should be an advantage not a crutch. I expect this would be too difficult to fix.

Not sure I recall any of the difficult random number/instant death rolls you mention. Maybe I choose different skills or an easier path? The only one I find hard (which you haven't put) is jumping the Bridge at the end of Bk13 - 40% death unless you have both Grand Huntmastery AND Assimilance and then it is 'only' 10% .

The riddle book 16 I could never get right, it always seemed every number I picked worked but perhaps the wording holds a clue are the 12 Luminescent lime-green stalagtites the Lieutenants of Night and does Beholden mean more than I think? Mind you took me ages to get Zakhan's riddle Bk7 right!

Deliverence needs rewording to reflect if your EP = 8, not CS that's impossible.

Special Items. I think the list of those permissable tends to be more of a guide for things that could be useful. That said, though, I think it is really important that LW doesn't take normal or heavy armour as a GM he needs to be really acrobatic and it just wouldn't make sense if he had, for example, Chainmail on. Bronin is heavy so while it may be a magical vest it would be too bulky for a GM, more's the pity as it is almost impossible to get Kagonite if you are experienced. The only other real absolutes would remain no Dagger of Vashna/Helshezag after Bk16. I don't see why LW couldn't carry Grey Crystal/Psychic Ring - they may not be useful but they are as magical as a Crystal Star Pendant, which is useless Bks 13-20 anyway. It would be really cool/poetic to use the Copper Studded Bullwhip +2CS vs Ghosts on the Ghost of Roark, Bk18, for example: It may also help vs Vortexi Bk16. So provided you don't use normal armour - Shield, Padded Leather, Chainmail, Helmet, Bronin Vest, etc. You can take what you want Bk13+.

 

[SnowShadow]

Oh, you are right. There is a 10% insant death at the end of Bk14 fom a Bolt Thrower but I don't think it needs fixing.

One thing that really bothered me when I read Book22 was the missing prices at 156.

 

[AguilaSaber]

Well, deliverance saying ...

if your COMBAT SKILL is reduced below ...

Should say ENDURANCE goes below, since your COMBAT SKILL will never be reduced to that level.


The Ghardoz bridge crossing with 40% chance of death by random number, and 10% unless you have two specific disciplines.

As for Deathlord Ixiataaga... You are probably intended to Kai Blast him. You will in all likelihood have to fight on -11, but the fight will likely be over one way or the other in three rounds so chances are half-decent.

Kai Blast (and Kai Ray) actually giving a CS advantage in the round it is used for enemies not immune to Kai surge would be nice. As the rules are now Kai surge is almost always the better ability to use because you have +8 CS more.

The start of the adventure really should have Banedon always give Lone Wolf the Dessi Stone. He is not intended to fight Ixiataaga with that weapon if he has the Sommerswerd. He is intended to fight his undead minions... and since he is warned not to draw the Sommerswerd it follows that he needs the enchanted weaponry.

Overall, I believe the Grand Master books should award a player carrying over a character with +4 CS and +8 EP for the 4 Grand Master disciplines Lone Wolf already has mastered. This will also make Lone Wolf not need to find any and every bonus items in the earlier books to be on equal chances (CS wise) with a new character.

On the other hand the books should give Lone Wolf the chance to find some magical weapon during the course of the Grand Master series. I do not recall there being any such weapon which can be kept at the end of an adventure.

 

[SnowShadow]

Totally agree. Kai Blast is supposed to be better but I prefer Kai Surge because +CS doesn't just mean you will inflict more damage but you receive less - and Kai Blast costs four times the EP! Perhaps if it did 0-27EP I'd be more tempted. How does everyone choose damage? I assume it is pick 1 Random Number and double the result, like the text option describes against Tagazin. Doesn't seem fair that you can spend -4EP and yet do -0EP damage, at least -1EP Kai Surge always works.

Genius! I love the idea of +4CS +8EP for mastering four disciplines/Kai Grand Defender, or even +3CS +6EP: After all the New Order GM has +3CS +6EP for Bks 21-23 to reach the rank of Grand Defender anyway - with the 25+Random Number Initial CS and more GM adventures to earn experience bonuses from, the New Order GM will always have a far superior CS unequipped to the Kai Supreme Master! Would be kind of nice to choose how to distribute the bonus too - either +1CS +2EP, +2CS only or +4EP only as 1CS=2EP usually (just check out the prices of Alether and Laumspur for example).
Assuming you roll all 9's CS/EP, LW completeing Bks 1-12 can have CS24 EP40 whereas starting from Bk13 alone he can have CS34 EP39, a difference of +10CS -1EP. You could just amend the figures to this to represent te changes LW body goes through as he ages slower, etc. upon Grand Mastership, provided this doesn't make it too easy.

Sommerswerd Bk17 - this does need clearing up. What you say makes a lot of sense, once in Ixia you shouldn't use it - or even on the Plane of Darkness, would it draw Naar's attention (does Banedon 'know', is that why he really gives LW the Korlinium Scabbard)?

You can keep the Power Spike but it is useless really - no CS bonus and no chance of Grand Weaponmastery bonus either. The only decent GM weapon is Skarn-Ska and can anyone take the Dessi Stone out of a Weapon and transfer it to another or only a Wizard or GM with spells - Elementalism/Magi-Magic/Kai Alchemy?

 

[BlackCat]

Overall, I believe the Grand Master books should award a player carrying over a character with +4 CS and +8 EP for the 4 Grand Master disciplines Lone Wolf already has mastered. This will also make Lone Wolf not need to find any and every bonus items in the earlier books to be on equal chances (CS wise) with a new character.

That sounds like a different solution to a problem that I've raised several times on the PA boards: that freakin' rule saying that you have to replace your Magnakai bonus by the GM counterpart when transfering a character! In other words, you cannot stack discipline bonuses while the new player can in a way. I was always told by the PA staff (who added this rule themselves since I never saw it my copies of the books*) that a veteran has a bigger CS score than the rookie because of all the stats boosting equipement he carries with him. The thing is that only the SS is sure to be carried along in the GM series since all the other items can be missed during your adventures. By the end of book 20, the veteran CS score will always be lower than the one of the rookie player with this non-stacking rule of PA.

Demonstration (X being the random number picked):
Rookie starting with book 13: CS = 25 + X
Long-time player that has played all the books before book 13: CS = 10 + 5 (LC) + 4 (WM) + 6 (PS) + X = 25 + X

At the beginning of book 20, this is what it gives us with all the stats replacing rule for the veteran. In this instance, let's pretend that we are fighting a monster and we use Kai-Surge:
Rookie starting with book 13: CS = 25 + 8 (KS) + 5 (GW) + 7 (for playing the 7 first GM books) + X = 45 + X
Long-time player that has played all the books before book 13 and needs to replace his Magnakai bonuses by the GM counterpart: CS = 10 + 5 (LC) + 4 (WM) + (-4 + 5 (GW)) + 6 (PS) + (-6 + 8 (KS)) + 7 (for playing the 7 first GM books) + X = 35 + X

If you are a veteran and carry the SS, your CS score should be 43 + X, still 2 points below the one of the rookie who is likely to use Skarn-Ska (if he decided to pick it up).

If we do the stacking for the veteran, your CS score should be 45 + X at the start of book 20, which is similar to the one of the rookie. Of course, you have a +8 bonus for carrying the SS, but hey, you are the veteran and should have a bonus of some sort, not being disadvantaged!

All that to say that the Mongoose edition should make it explicitly that you have to stack your GM bonuses to your Magnakai ones if you are a veteran to make things even with the rookie. Of course, I feel that I'm too late now since book 13 is already out.

EDIT: Oh, and BTW, I don't think you need to add EP to your veteran character when starting the GM series.
Rookie starting with book 13: EP = 30 + X
Long-time player that has played all the books before book 13: EP = 20 + 11 (LC) + X = 31 + X

The EP scores of the veteran and rookie should remain similar to each other throughout the GM series.

*Just to be clear here: the PA staff didn't exactly create the rule themselves. They added it to the online edition because of, among other clues gathered here and there, Newsletter 28 which says something about stacking disciplines bonuses being forbidden when transfering from book 12 to 13. I'm not convince by it though since it doesn't make sense. I feel like JD got mixed in his rules somewhere (hey, nobody is perfect, even the Great Joe! ). Anyways, even the Great Joe cannot be by your side when you play the books to punish you if you don't exactly use his rules, so if you think like me that not stacking your stats in the GM series is unfair, just stack them!

 

[AguilaSaber]

There are two more bonues that would be available to the character carrying over.

The first is the +1 per section which Healing / Curing provides. The NO GM has a version of this although more limited. So likely you will have this.

The second is the Curing - Archmaster ability to restore 20 EP immediately. This can be used every 2nd adventure.

These abilities does not make up for the CS loss but they do compensate for it to some extent.

So overall, the loss of CS is combat by better chances to gain/replenish EP.

The books also needs to reiterate Kai disciplines improvements which gives bonuses usuable at any time over the books. Like for Kai Blast and for some of the Weaponmastery abilities. Actually writing how they work in the description would be nice as well.

 

[SnowShadow]

Yes the relatively unlimited Healing/Curing is vital for LW, as well as Weaponmastery bonus in any Weapon and Mindblast even if you do not have Kai Surge (although I keep that as +3CS until I pick up Kai Surge). I hope you'll be able to gain a Grand Weaponmastery slot per completed Book as a GM, perhaps not as important to LW as it is only a difference of +1CS but New Order GM gets no bonus with Gr.Weaponmastery except for 2 weapons, or do we all use +4 anyway for all the others?

Book 16. President (Khadrian?) gives you a Black Talisman at one point yet it is referred to as a Black Amulet later on when you are asked if you have it (or vice versa) it would be nice to clarify the wording, it could even be "If you still have the Black Talisman from President..." I think it should be a Talisman - seem to think an Amulet protects from something and a Talisman causes something (says something about a magical bolt discharge I think, book not on hand at mo.). You can also find a Black Token which some readers may mistake this for.

 

[Drake_NZ]

Thanks everybody, some good thoughts.

The errata in Project Aon goes someway to fixing issues in the books (typos, incorrect references etc) but it doesn't go as far as fixing balance issues like the two deadly fights in books 9 and 11.

The riddle in book 16 is something that seriously needs fixing, and its an issue that requires some changes to the puzzle itself.

In terms of delivery, I had always assumed that it replaces the "curing" +20 EP benefit, but I could be wrong. It would be nice to see some clarification on what type of damage can be cured - is it just "combat" damage, what about damage burnt out from kai-surge, or non-physical damage?

The problem raised above about LW having a disadvantage because he cannot "stack" his discipline bonuses is very true indeed. Perhaps they could help by adding a potion of alether or two in the equipment lists (as was done in the new book 10). But its very severe in any situation where LW cannot use the sommerswerd. There are a couple of absolutely deadly fights prior to the Deathlord, and again it would be very nice to know when LW can use his sommerswerd - this is particularly so in the fights right before fighting the deathlord, where presumably it doesn't matter if he reveals himself??

Throwing a random special item or two in might also help - perhaps a relatively useful magic weapon (say +4 CS?) or a lesser version of Kagonite Chainmail would be useful.

Clarifying whether LW can use the silver bracers in books 14 to 16 (as they have been left of the list for those books) would be extremely useful, as the +2 CS bonus would go a long way to helping even things out!!!!

But I do think the instant death rolls just go way too far - the worst offender is in book 16 - where you roll to see if you are detected by the cultists, and thanks to the sommerswerd a 'veteran' player has something like a 30% to 40% (depending on whether you have a runic disc) chance of instant death.

 

[SnowShadow]

Deliverence - I assume it applies to all damage (but then why does it only say 'in combat'). If you don't have Deliverence you can only use the Curing +20EP once every 100 days, with Deliverence it is once every 20 Days - in theory it could be used twice in a long adventure or at least once every adventure whereas the Curing benefit might not be usable in a subsequent adventure if that occurs straight after the previous.

Silver Bracers can be used from Bk13 so I say that counts for ALL LWGM books.

Don't recall instant death Bk 16 is that by boat acoss the lake or walking past the altar on the way to the gorge? If it is the boat, I normally walk around the lake which I think takes one extra day but oddly makes no difference to how long Shamath takes to appear. :wink:

 

[BlackCat]

I've edited my previous post since I think I might have unwillingly gave the false intention to the PA staff of coming up with rules out of the blue.

 

[AguilaSaber]

There is mostly no reason at all for a player carrying over Lone Wolf to take Deliverance as one of the first four disciplines. A new player might consider it but taking three disciplines to boost combat skill / Endurance leaves only one discipline for utility.

The adventures are spaced so there is no chance to get to use Deliverance twice during an adventure. None of them lasts 20 days counting from the first combat/time your EP can have dropped enough for it to be usable.

There is also usually about 3 months between them so a chance to use Curing - Archmaster is not present in the earlier books. I guess you will have the opportunity to use it in both 18 and 19 adn I'm not sure about 19 and 20, but otherwise it is between 20 and 100 days between the adventures.

 

[SnowShadow]

You can't use battleheal Curing from Bk 17 and then again in 18, not a long enough period/100 Days but Deliverence you could. You can use Deliverence twice in Bk 15 because it takes 15 days to dig out of the Temple of Antah. So I'd say Archmaster Curing once in 13, 14, 15, 16 and once 17 OR 18 and once 19 OR 20 (a year for everyone else but not a year to LW body I think); all the books you can use Deliverence once, twice Bk15 either side of the cave in. Perhaps twice Bk18, not counted how many days he journey takes - it wouldbe VERY VERY useful if the GM books kept a track of days like Bk2 - you know on the 33rd day of your quest, etc.

 

[AguilaSaber]

Well, it is as I said in Book 17/18. Delieverance can be used once in every book. Curing can be used at most every second book with the exception of 18 to 19 when it can be used in two consecutive books. Book 17 to 18 was not an exception-.

I think about 5 days passes from the first combat to reaching the Temple of Antah. Lone Wolf moves very quickly over the land in this book as in many others. Count the passages where a night passes.

You will probably end up in the Hellswamp or even in King Sarnac's court. There is one night in Shugkona, one in the forest east of Shugkona. At least two in hellswamp. Not sure if there are more than that mentioned. Might be one north of Shugkona as well.

 

[Drake_NZ]

Some good comments... although I expect deliverance rules etc won't be modified as they will appear first in book 13, which is already printed.

I think the main issue is rebalancing the books where there are "bottlenecks" that are out of whack with the rest of the series (books 17, 11, 9 etc) and then fixing serious errors or ambiguities that confuse the reader and make the books harder (the riddle puzzle, using the sommerswerd etc).

Are there any changes in book 13 that people have picked up on? Has anyone seen the list of items from books 1-12 that are shown in book 14?

Cam

 

[BlackCat]

Oh, I know what needs fixing: the title on the cover of the upcoming book 15 (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/product_images/full_size/lw15.jpg). It should be Darke, not Dark, because it's the name of the city.

 

[Celtic_Canadian]

Already sent Matt a private message concerning that one Black Cat... I hoped to keep it out of the main forum as with what happened with the Book 12 screw-up.

I'm sure everything will be fixed in time for the anticipated April release of the book though. When I saw that yesterday morning I thought how nice it would have been for us to see the spine of Book 12 before it went to print too. 8)

 

[BlackCat]

Already sent Matt a private message concerning that one Black Cat... I hoped to keep it out of the main forum as with what happened with the Book 12 screw-up.

It would had appeared on the forum one day or another. Better be me to post it now before someone else does it with harsh comments. :wink:

 

[Arkansaw]

Already sent Matt a private message concerning that one Black Cat... I hoped to keep it out of the main forum as with what happened with the Book 12 screw-up.

I'm sure everything will be fixed in time for the anticipated April release of the book though. When I saw that yesterday morning I thought how nice it would have been for us to see the spine of Book 12 before it went to print too. 8)

spotted. any more 'collectors' cover-ups?