G'Quonth Battle Priority Version

[vitalis6969]

We have been testing this slightly altered and downgraded version of the G'Quonth so the varient will see more play, as right now in our group it is never taken because at the same priorty you can take a Bin'Tak and there is just no comparison... :wink:

So, here goes one of the homebrew versions we have been using, the fluff is the same as in the book, no fighter bays, same hull, blah blah... That is how they supposedly fit all these wonderous toys into the very same hull

Speed - 5
Turn - 1/45deg
Hull - 6
Damage - 55/13
Crew - 70/19
Troops - 6
Craft - None
Special - Jump Point

Weapons:

Mag Gun ..... Range - 24" Arc - F AD - 3 Spec: Beam, Super AP, Trip Dam
E-Mine ........ Range - 30" Arc - F AD - 6 Spec: E-Mine, Slow Loading
E-Mine ........ Range - 30" Arc - F AD - 6 Spec: E-Mine, Slow Loading
Ion Torp ..... Range - 30" Arc - F AD - 4 Spec: Precise, Super AP

Twin Particle Array Range - 8" Arc - F AD - 10 Spec: Twin Link, Weak
Twin Particle Array Range - 8" Arc - A AD - 8 Spec: Twin Link, Weak
Twin Particle Array Range - 8" Arc - P AD - 10 Spec: Twin Link, Weak
Twin Particle Array Range - 8" Arc - S AD - 10 Spec: Twin Link, Weak

Light Pls Cannon R - 8" Arc - F AD - 6
Light Pls Cannon R - 8" Arc - A AD - 4
Light Pls Cannon R - 8" Arc - P AD - 6
Light Pls Cannon R - 8" Arc - S AD - 6


As compaired to the regular G'Quonth, this version has had its Pulse Cannons returned to their origina G'Quon version with the exception of the aft arcs which are weaker to compensate for the greater weapons power that is pointed forward.

Also, this version has dumped the 6 AD Heavy Lasers for a slightly upgraded Mag Gun from the G'Lan varient while retaining the emines and ion torpedo launcher.

One thing we are currently looking at is dropping the range of the mag gun down from 24" to 20" but raising the AD of the R arc pulse cannon and twin particle arrays back to their normal G'Quon level.

Another version we tried for a short while had the Mag Gun at a 18 inch range but with 4 AD. That varient in playtesting was absolutely devistating as a close range fighting. Pretty much too devistating.

The version I presented above retains the speed loss of the original G'Quonth as well as returning the pulse cannon to their original AD and a main beam weapon with half he attack dice to make this ship more of a fit into Battle Priority over War Priority. Its also a fairly nice match for the Tertius Cruiser, but still behind a bit on the curve compaired to that awesome ship as it should be.

Also there has been discussion of adding the Command trait to this ship as the Command version of the G'Quon has more armor, weps, etc... I personally don't think it needs the command trait but it has been discussed.

Constructive insights are most welcome...

Thanks,

Vitalis

 

[Alexb83]

You've dropped it a PL, and given it better armament than it already had at war (4AD of F arc beam is easily better than 6AD of boresight), and by far better than the 3AD of boresight that the G'quan gets.

The forward armament is too much - the mag gun should be back to 20 or 18 inches, and the torpedo should be slow loading or have fewer AD.

All you're really proposing is making an 'underpowered' war level ship into an insanely overpowered battle level, where you'll never see anyone using the G'quan or G'lan, and definately not the Var'nic.

 

[vitalis6969]

The Mag Gun is 3 AD not 4, but I see your point, dropping it to a 20" range would help on that.

Also, keep the Torp Launcher but dump one of the E-Mine Launchers.

So its main armament would be more like this:

Mag Gun - Range 20", AD 3, Arc F, Spec: Beam, Super AP, TD
E-Mine: Same as Usual, one launcher Only
Ion Torpedo: Same as Usual, one launcher Only

Rest of stats the same

Oh, and in our group at least the G'Quonth is never used anyway as it is, Bin'Tak is a much better War choice :wink:

 

[Alexb83]

I still think you'll find with that setup, you've made all the other battle level choices redundant.

The only saving grace of a G'quan compared to your G'quanth is that it stands a reasonable chance of boresighting (with an initiative sink) out at 30 inches, and so may get an extra turn of DD beam shooting over the G'quanth. At closer ranges, there is no comparison.
Giving it the ion torp is what's really broken it, though - with 3AD of 20' mag gun and 1 less e-mine launcher, it's a fair(ish) alternative to a G'quan, as you've made it shorter ranged but given it wider arcs and higher damage output.
Throwing in 4AD of ion torpedo on top has made it far better than either the G'quan or the G'lan

 

[vitalis6969]

Thanks for the discussion on this, I appreciate it and am finding it interesting.

Here is the list of tradeoffs:

Things lost from a G'Quon/G'Lan:

2 Frazi Flights
1 inch of movement
10 inches of range from beam weapon
2 troops
4 AD from rear firing arc
loss of secondary beam weapon (G'Lan varient only)
loss of one E-Mine launcher (G'Quon varient only)

Things gained over G'Quon/G'Lan:

F arc firing main Beam Weapon
F arc Ion Torpedo Launcher
1 AD greater Mag Gun damage
2" greater Mag Gun Range

The G'Quonth is supposed to be a "no-compromise approach to raw firepower"

Just trying to find a balance to use it in Battle Priority

Reductions made from original G'Quonth:

3 AD of beam damage
1 E-Mine launcher
12 dice of secondary weapon damage
10 inches of beam range

Cutting the Ion Torpedo Launcher down to 3 or 2 AD would help as well. I'll look into playtesting that change as well..

I appreciate the input

 

[H]

Hmm, as you no doubt noticed, i was re-statting a war level G'Quonth. I think unless you make it an absolute specialist at a specific roll, the battle level is well catered for, the G'Quan might not be the best battleship out their, but it does it's job, the G'Lan is a fine addition, and I even like the var'Nic.
even with my own G'Quonth, one thing that is probably relevant is ISD's should anyone use them. as their will always be better options available.

As it stands, I agree about the overpowering of it at battle level, refine it somewhat, maybe look to give it a defined roll, maybe a fleet carrier at battle, or a full blooded torpedo ship?

 

[Alexb83]

I agree with Hiff there 100% - give it a clear role. Squeeze it into a Niche that the alternatives don't match, and give people a reason to take it, without making it such that there's no reason not to take it. I think that every ship should have a clear strength+weakness, or else fall into the 'well balanced' category, where it can dish out no more damage (on average) than it will take.

 

[Triggy]

I'm with Alex and Hiffano - I don't mind it being a War level ship but it has to have the stats to back it up otherwise it'll never be taken. As for the actual armament, pick the role then fit it in (although it shouldn't be that different to the G'Quan or G'Lan IMO).

 

[Silvereye]

As others have said, it needs to have a niche, other wise you end up in very Primus/Tertius like mess. From what you posted, it wipes the floor with a G'Lan no contest, and makes it almost a guarenteed choice instead of a G'Quan.

Perhaps merging your idea to reduce the PL to battle, with hiffano's idea of a torpedo cruiser might work better?

 

[CodeofArms]

Sorry previous post made no sense.

Drop the mag gun to 18 inches.

 

[Abraxas]

I'll be honest... I don't much like this, or, rather, I don't like this as a replacement for the G'Quonth.

The G'Quonth (IIRC) was a full blooded strike cruiser while this is more reminiscent of a bombardment cruiser. I mean, it's an OK ship... but not an equal replacement for the G'Quonth, in my opinion.

Sorry .