Gold Pieces for Credits

[dragoner]

The moment you start using a paper or electronic currency backed by gold, you might as well have a fiat currency.

Yes, and that the states set the value of the gold to their currency, and did not use an "open market", which made it totally a fiat currency. Even before that, they would vary the purity of the coinage. The modern currency system just removes the baggage of the earlier systems.

 

[F33D]

So where is China's crash?
Don't they regulate the exchange rate to boost exports?

No, they don't. I do business over there. China's currency is completely convertible. Where have you been living? Under a rock? ALSO, China's currency is DESIRED. It isn't crap that is trying to be defended from a strong currency. :roll:

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

So where is China's crash?
Don't they regulate the exchange rate to boost exports?

No, they don't. I do business over there. China's currency is completely convertible. Where have you been living? Under a rock? ALSO, China's currency is DESIRED. It isn't crap that is trying to be defended from a strong currency. :roll:

It is also an Imperium that pretends to be a Republic. At least the Traveller version of the Imperium doesn't say its a "People's Republic" when its not.

 

[Infojunky]

Wow talk about arguments that have made the rounds through Traveller Fandom over and over, with new people making the same old statements..... It is kinda amusing in a sad way, as much as we move forward we still hit the same stumbling blocks. At least y'all haven't mined the various resources for world and budgetary numbers then the arguments get real tedious.

While I use and allow Bullion to exist in my games, it is in the valuable commodity mode rather than Numismatic mode as the gold market varies from region to region. I generally set the price per gram by how much of a Pain in the Ass a marketable mass is to move and guard.

 

[F33D]

Wow talk about arguments that have made the rounds through Traveller Fandom over and over, with new people making the same old statements.....

Really? In 20 years of boards I've never seen it before. What board did you see this on before?

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

Wow talk about arguments that have made the rounds through Traveller Fandom over and over, with new people making the same old statements.....

Really? In 20 years of boards I've never seen it before. What board did you see this on before?

The value of gold is indisputable. Lets say your players decide to take a trip to the other side of the Milky Way Galaxy, lets say through a wormhole for instance. Only preliminary explorations through the wormhole have occured before, now some people are going through to explore new worlds. Now assuming they meet alien civilizations, what is going to be more valuable, gold or Imperial Credits?

 

[AndrewW]

Now assuming they meet alien civilizations, what is going to be more valuable, gold or Imperial Credits?

Depends on the aliens, could be they give gold no value whatsoever, they could be just as worthless as Imperial Credits. On the other hand Imperial Credits may be a novelty and worth considerably more then gold there.

 

[Reynard]

Remember when explorers came to Central America lusting for that high value gold and the native civilizations treated the stuff as a medium for art and an easily workable material for utilitarian purposes? Not every society sees to same value.

The hypothetical civilization you mention may have their own value system with a currency. They may or may not have a particular value for gold but let's say they do. Resource values can be all over the place but if the two sides can determine acceptable values to tag to their currencies they will have an exchange rate using the universal value of each currency. The hypothetical society would value the Imperial credit over gold for its importance as an exchange medium.

Goods -> Alien currency --><-- Imperial credit <- other goods.
|_--------------------------->Barter<----------------------------_|

 

[F33D]

Wow talk about arguments that have made the rounds through Traveller Fandom over and over, with new people making the same old statements.....

Really? In 20 years of boards I've never seen it before. What board did you see this on before?

The value of gold is indisputable. Lets say your players decide to take a trip to the other side of the Milky Way Galaxy, lets say through a wormhole for instance. Only preliminary explorations through the wormhole have occured before, now some people are going through to explore new worlds. Now assuming they meet alien civilizations, what is going to be more valuable, gold or Imperial Credits?

And people wonder why I am against the use of mind altering drugs. :lol:

 

[simonh]

Now assuming they meet alien civilizations, what is going to be more valuable, gold or Imperial Credits?

Depends on the aliens, could be they give gold no value whatsoever, they could be just as worthless as Imperial Credits. On the other hand Imperial Credits may be a novelty and worth considerably more then gold there.

Exactly. Credits are a bizzare complex artistic artefact from a civilisation on the far side of the Galaxy. Imagine how much collectors here nowadays would pay for real alien currency?

On the other hand depending on their sensory organs gold might be no more attractive or valuable than lead or copper, and depending on their geology and the metallicity of their environment, it might be a commonplace material.

We're not being deliberately awkward Tom, there really isn't much special about gold as an element. It's value to us humans is at this stage mainly aesthetic and for historical reasons.

Simon Hibbs

 

[F33D]

We're not being deliberately awkward Tom, there really isn't much special about gold as an element. It's value to us humans is at this stage mainly aesthetic and for historical reasons.

Simon Hibbs

Here's some irony Simon. While we can currently use our primitive particle accelerators to turn lead into gold (in minute amounts), it is MUCH more difficult to turn gold into lead. Also, the Indians in Mexico, at the time of the Spanish conquests, valued silver MUCH more highly than gold. As the former was rarer in their geographic area...

 

[Condottiere]

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fission and you energize him for a lifetime.

 

[Infojunky]

Wow talk about arguments that have made the rounds through Traveller Fandom over and over, with new people making the same old statements.....

Really? In 20 years of boards I've never seen it before. What board did you see this on before?

REALLY!?!.... But since you haven't inhabited the same list and boards as I, I figure you just missed it.

 

[F33D]

REALLY!?!.... But since you haven't inhabited the same list and boards as I, I figure you just missed it.

Just the main Trav boards. (mostly people who played CT and thus knew the data thus didn't argue it I guess) So, where was it? Some obscure board with only new (post MT) players? I don't remember it on TML or CotI for example...

I'm mainly curious as it seems that I missed out on a bunch of Traveller sites. Must have been using cloaking devices.

 

[Reynard]

Must have missed the GEnie bulletin boards and the USENET game sites.

 

[F33D]

Must have missed the GEnie bulletin boards and the USENET game sites.

Nope. Was there. (but not every night by far) Don't remember any big disagreements with Marc's pricing of gold there. Sounds like you remember specifics. DO tell.

 

[Reynard]

Hmmm... 20-30 years ago. Memory not that good. There might have been but there were also a LOT of topics just like we have here and now. Personally I don't remember any that were as enthusiastic as the topic here. Gold was just another commodity on the charts for a trader to buy and sell. That's why I like the Mongoose forums, we get enthusiastic!

 

[Infojunky]

Must have missed the GEnie bulletin boards and the USENET game sites.

Nope. Was there. (but not every night by far) Don't remember any big disagreements with Marc's pricing of gold there. Sounds like you remember specifics. DO tell.

Well I guess you missed it then. Though there were and are a lot of discussions. Just go poke Hans, and you get near enough to the topic to be wearying. Shucks, just go back and wander through one of Katie Helms screeds on here topic of annoyance at the moment. Though honestly they where more amusing in person than in text.

All I am saying here is this is turning into a circular set of discussions, where every point of view can be viable within that individual's games. (i.e. IMTU needs to be liberally sprinkled throughout)

 

[F33D]

Well I guess you missed it then.

Missed it where?

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

We're not being deliberately awkward Tom, there really isn't much special about gold as an element. It's value to us humans is at this stage mainly aesthetic and for historical reasons.

Simon Hibbs

Here's some irony Simon. While we can currently use our primitive particle accelerators to turn lead into gold (in minute amounts), it is MUCH more difficult to turn gold into lead. Also, the Indians in Mexico, at the time of the Spanish conquests, valued silver MUCH more highly than gold. As the former was rarer in their geographic area...

It is much easier to turn something else into lead, otherwise we wouldn't be worrying about lead poisoning and getting lead out of gasoline and paint. Gold is a heavier metal than lead, thus it is harder for the Universe to make and there is less of it.