Glorantha - THE SECOND AGE

[Trifletraxor]

LAYOUT:

Just got it, and I must say, this is a REALLY nice book!

Hard cover, colour and high quality paper. Cover picture could be better, but RuneQuest is not known for its art. Some of the pictures inside are a bit silly and "comic"-like for my liking, but all in all they improve the book.

Maybe a bit stiff priced, but that's okay with this quality. Continue with colour, hard-cover and at least this number of pages. (The 96-pages black & white productions are cheaper, but feels more like a rip-off)

I like the big glorantha map on the inside of the front and back cover. In general, I would have liked bigger, more detailed maps inside the book, and maybe a few big pictures too, not just those adjusted to a single column. And of course, the book could be much bigger!

But, all in all, VERY GOOD! Go Mongoose!

SGL.

 

[soltakss]

It's not as good as I expected, to tell the truth. I was expecting more of a Gazetteer, a cross between the Dragon Pass Gazetteer/Ralios PDf and Genertela Pack. In fact, it's nothing like these.

The Godlearners and EWF stuff is interesting. Dragon Pass is skipped over, to tell the truth, and a lot of Glorantha is briefly sketched over. To be fair, it does cover a huge area, pretty much all of Glorantha, which is good, I suppose.

But, what really annoys me is the glaring errors. The biggest one is the mention of Balazar in 902, when everyone (*) knows that Balazar didn't conquer it until 1082. That kind of thing is just plain sloppy. Unless, of course, the country named after a hero is really a country from which a hero took his name....

Another is that the folk of Caladraland worship the volcano god Aurelion, who was reunited with his faraway sister, when again (*) everyone knows they worship Caladra who was reunited with her faraway brother Aurelion. Aurelion's Breakwater has now changed from a mountain to a volcano, just in case we were too stupid to realise that the Volcano Twins were volcano gods. I preferred the idea of Aurelion being a mountain god and Caladra a Volcano Goddess. More sloppiness.

Still, it serves as a good introduction to Glorantha:Second Age, but at 25 pounds is a bit expensive.

(*) What? Not everyone knows this? You amaze me!

 

[Rurik]

It's not as good as I expected, to tell the truth. I was expecting more of a Gazetteer, a cross between the Dragon Pass Gazetteer/Ralios PDf and Genertela Pack. In fact, it's nothing like these.

The Godlearners and EWF stuff is interesting. Dragon Pass is skipped over, to tell the truth, and a lot of Glorantha is briefly sketched over. To be fair, it does cover a huge area, pretty much all of Glorantha, which is good, I suppose.

But, what really annoys me is the glaring errors. The biggest one is the mention of Balazar in 902, when everyone (*) knows that Balazar didn't conquer it until 1082. That kind of thing is just plain sloppy. Unless, of course, the country named after a hero is really a country from which a hero took his name....

Another is that the folk of Caladraland worship the volcano god Aurelion, who was reunited with his faraway sister, when again (*) everyone knows they worship Caladra who was reunited with her faraway brother Aurelion. Aurelion's Breakwater has now changed from a mountain to a volcano, just in case we were too stupid to realise that the Volcano Twins were volcano gods. I preferred the idea of Aurelion being a mountain god and Caladra a Volcano Goddess. More sloppiness.

Still, it serves as a good introduction to Glorantha:Second Age, but at 25 pounds is a bit expensive.

(*) What? Not everyone knows this? You amaze me!

It's called Gregging, err, Robining, err Mongoosing, err, well, maybe we all can collectively come up with a name for it.

 

[mthomason]

Gloranthaing

 

[Stewart Stansfield]

Another is that the folk of Caladraland...

This was unfortunate, but perhaps arises from a little misunderstanding in the final stages of publication, rather than owt else. Though I'd have hoped Caladraland might have given it away...

As you'd probably noted, Simon, Glorantha: Introduction to the Hero Wars 'germinated' a couple of mistakes in the later editing stages, one of which was swapping the genders of the Imperial Age Volcano Twins: female Caladra became male, and male Aurelion became female. This is an error.

As I'm preparing some Caladran stuff for Rick, I got to talking with Robin about his MRQ piece. Robin had - wholly understandably - followed Glorantha: Intro in his original draft, so I noted the problem with the source. Jeff Kyer also noted he was following the good ol' female Caladra/male Aurelion line in his Cults work.

I believe Robin had already submitted the typescript, so the correction was passed on; though it seems that there was some confusion, for rather than changing the pronouns &c., the 'gender swap' in the final product led to references to Caladra being replaced with Aurelion, and vice versa. But hey, at least the genders are now correct!

Cheerio,

Stu.

 

[B_Steele]

One big thing to remember when looking at any of the Second Age stuff is that history is written by the victors, and that when the overall Myths of Glorantha change...Glorantha changes.

Alot happens in the Second Age to the very Myths as you know them before they become what you know and love from the 3rd Age. Or...at least...that is a possibility.

We *knew* that Earth was flat and revolved around the sun, only later to find out otherwise and now we *know* that to be false. Until the next big discovery, that is.

What is fact later in Glorantha might not become fact until later...

(Did I just blow the minds of the non-Gloranthans, or what?)

-Bry

 

[soltakss]

One big thing to remember when looking at any of the Second Age stuff is that history is written by the victors, and that when the overall Myths of Glorantha change...Glorantha changes.

Yes, myths can be changed, we all know that. But that can be a wall to hide behind "oh, that's because it's 2nd age and the myths were different then". Nope, it's because they made mistakes.

Yes, I know the Godlearners made up Caladra and Aurelion and the myths are still emerging. Lodril is male, so Lodril/Caladra could easily be confused, fair enough. Aurelion could be confused with an erath goddess as well. But that's simply justifying sloppy mistakes.

Alot happens in the Second Age to the very Myths as you know them before they become what you know and love from the 3rd Age. Or...at least...that is a possibility.

It's also a better possibility that they cocked up. Naming Balazar nearly 200 years before Balazar conqueured it, for instance. Not mythic changes, not history being written by the victors (Balazar - Yes, I conquered the land 200 years before everyone thought I did, yeah right) but a mistake. They happen, but it would have been nice if it had been checked properly before publication.

 

[Darran]

But, what really annoys me is the glaring errors. The biggest one is the mention of Balazar in 902, when everyone (*) knows that Balazar didn't conquer it until 1082. That kind of thing is just plain sloppy. Unless, of course, the country named after a hero is really a country from which a hero took his name....

I am sure that they couldn't count in Balazar, keep track of dates and years?
No chance.

 

[Darran]

I did notice that the map on the inside front cover has some of the name spelling corrected.

Gaird is now Saird, Dagori Inkerin to Dagori Inkarth, Trojang to Trowjang etc.

This good but can the PDF on the main website be upgraded as well?

 

[gamesmeister]

But, what really annoys me is the glaring errors. The biggest one is the mention of Balazar in 902, when everyone (*) knows that Balazar didn't conquer it until 1082. That kind of thing is just plain sloppy. Unless, of course, the country named after a hero is really a country from which a hero took his name....

Another is that the folk of Caladraland worship the volcano god Aurelion, who was reunited with his faraway sister, when again (*) everyone knows they worship Caladra who was reunited with her faraway brother Aurelion. Aurelion's Breakwater has now changed from a mountain to a volcano, just in case we were too stupid to realise that the Volcano Twins were volcano gods. I preferred the idea of Aurelion being a mountain god and Caladra a Volcano Goddess. More sloppiness.

Wow, talk about harsh. :roll:

Ok, so they made a couple of mistakes, and you got to show off your Gloranthan knowledge. Good for you. To everyone else I would say don't let that detract from what is still (IMO) a beautiful and informative book.

 

[Rurik]

I am sure that they couldn't count in Balazar, keep track of dates and years?
No chance.

But I'm pretty sure the Yelmalio Tharkantus cult he brought from Darra Happa could. Plus the fact that he died in the Dragonkill Wars not long after becoming King of Balazar is a pretty good indication when his life took place.

You can justify many inconsistencies with mythological differences (I think the retconn explanation of the Elmal/Yelmalio cult on glorantha.com does a pretty good job of reconciling the different versions) - but some of them are just plain mistakes.

Glorantha has a detailed history that has some inconsistencies, and it is understandable that mistakes will be made - but lets not try to call them something else. Balazar did not exist as Balazar until after Balazar - before that it was just part of the Elder Wilds.

I'mk not trying to be a stick in the mud, but I would rather see issues like this corrected in errata, not explained away or justified as fact. Perhaps the biggest problem with Glorantha is the inconsistencies - they should be reduced, not perpetrated.

 

[Trifletraxor]

WELCOME TO GLORANTHA:

Myth and Adventure: Did not see the point in the "Gloranthan Themes" list, which I found written in a bit too "simple" way for my liking. Listing stuff like "War can be heroic and glorious but is always devastating and cruel"?

The World: The discription of how Glorantha was an earthen cube floating on an infinite sea wasn't too easy to grasp hold on. One of the other ways of viewing Glorantha might have been better.

Cultures and People: Short but good. The parts about currency and metals were too short and superficial though. Should have been left out for later if they didn't have the space to give a fuller description this time.

The Inhuman Races: Short but okay.

Gods and Heroes: I liked the part explaining why Rune Magic is the common magic of this age. The description of the Otherworld were a bit short, and especially the one about the "Essence World" left me a bit puzzled. I also wonder if the part about heroQuesting was correct or not. Arkat is mentioned as the first person to HeroQuest. I thought he only was the first person to quest outside the borders of his religion (mapping the heroplane). Instead the god learners are given the role of being the ones who found the connection between traditions, and discover they could step off the beaten path.

History in a Nutshell: I found the nutshell to be a bit small. I can't really see how anyone without prior knowledge of gloranthan mythology/history could get much from that short description.



All in all:

The "Welcome to Glorathan" chapter has a very good layout. 3 colour pictures brighten up the reading, though the pictures were a bit too cartoonish for my liking. It gives a good overview of the different cultures and races, but they try to cover too much material in only a few pages. This makes much of the reading a bit superficial. I would have preferred more pages to cover this, or, if that wasn't possible less topics covered, but in greater detail.

SGL.

 

[soltakss]

Wow, talk about harsh. :roll:

Ok, so they made a couple of mistakes, and you got to show off your Gloranthan knowledge. Good for you. To everyone else I would say don't let that detract from what is still (IMO) a beautiful and informative book.

Sorry, I wasn't intending to show off, but it would be nice if new supplements took into account previous history.

If I bought a supplement about Dark Age/Arthurian England, say, and they had something about King Arthur fighting Charlemagne or the Moors, then I would be justified in pointing out that they were several centuries apart. Or if a supplement about Victorian Central Europe talked about Yugoslavia then I would be justified in pointing out the error.

Similarly, I feel justified in pointing out that a country named after it's founding hero shouldn't have the same name nearly 200 years before it's hero founded the country. It's not an obscure fact, it's a well-known one to anyone who has read the history of Balazar (Griffin Mountain).

OK, so most people couldn't give a rat's arse about that, but it's just a shame it wasn't caught beforehand.

Overall, the book is pretty good, a bit too broad as it sketches everything and does nothing in detail, but's that's probably the kind of book it is. I would have been happier for a different area to be the focus of the Campaign Setting, but I suppose Safelster is a good place, being between the two empires.

Certainly, I would recommend people to go out and buy it, even if they are interested in Glorantha and not particularly into RQ. This should appeal to HQ fans as well.

 

[CharlieMonster]

I quite like the fact that the Third age Kralorelan religion (The Path of Immanent Mastery) is actually a God Learner construct/corruption, which just goes to show something of their filthy-rotten-meldek-abomination survived!

 

[Trifletraxor]

THE TWO EMPIRES:

Good layout, colour pictures brighten up. Very nice picture of the Middle Sea Empire, could very well have been bigger.

The content I find mostly good. A fine overview of the god learners and the empire of wyrms friends. However, I'm rather annoyed by the way history is described in present tense, instead of past tense. Don't like it at all.

The way especially the god learners, but also the EWF are portraid as bad guys are not totally to my liking. "How to act like a God Learner" says just be an arrogant prick. This one-sided view of a culture as villains lacks the ballance of previous publications about glorantha. Also, continue mentioning that the god learners and EWF will soon meet their righteous doom like it has allready happened, gives a bit too fatalistic feel over the second age.

SGL.

 

[Richard]

Been reading my copy and I like it a lot. I have serious dounts about the huge myth mucking about megapowered background but that's okay I can back ground this and use it as a fine setting for RQ. The lack of system specifics isa doubly smart move. Book becomes very readable in it's own right and those of us sticking to RQ3 or other variants (Sorry to much to err..'house rule'...in MRQ) can plunge in. Not being a Glorantha group will be a great help here. Stafford keeps correcting himself is ignore any fiddly glitches or inconsistencies with previous versions of Glorantha. The EWF and Godlearner's as pretty unremmitingly scummy bad guys is a shame but I'm just going to ignore this. Add in a page of your own giving a positive spin on their worldview. To help with this how about ignoring Mr.Stafford completely from this point on? Maybe the Dragonkill War happens , maybe not...Maybe the great Compromise is rewritten and Heroquesting to change it ceases (Keep it 'real'...). Detailing an area or region in which to place player character's is the obvious next commercial move. Mongoose's own Pavis/Big Rubble, River of Cradles, Griffin Mountain equivalent. Good stuff overall.

 

[Richard]

Re: above meant Glorantha 'groupie' not group.

 

[Newtus]

Showing the EWF and the Godlearners as baddies is the sort of stereotypical typecasting that happens alot in the 'big picture' write ups of Glorantha. When you start reading the more first hand accounts from individuals of specific cultures, it all starts to break down.

I've got Dorestor Land of Doom in my hands at the moment. This 3rd ed supplement details this Chaos pit in all its rupulsive glory, yet some of the cultural information shows some of the races how live there such as the Telmori werewolves and Poison wood elves, both considered chaotic by outsiders, in a more sympathic even favourable light.

My favourite region/culture in 3rd Age is the Lunar Empire, which is traditionally shown in a bad light because of Greg Stafford's bias towards the Sartarites (which he openly admits). However Ive run a long running campaign in the Lunar heartlands itself, where the players have learnt there is a lot more to the Lunars than being devious scimitar wielding imperilists.

I suspect that the whole EWF and Godlearners being all bad will really open up and get less black and white in the supplements that detail specific locales and regions. From my reading of the book the seeds are already there. The factions within the Godlearner empire spring to mind. Also no one says you have to play it as writen. Certainly not at my gaming table, its the players who will have the final say on whether the EWF or Godlearners come out on top.

 

[Trifletraxor]

MAJOR CULTURES:

Best chapter in the book that I have read in the book so far! Excellent reveiw of the major cultures.

(only downsides where history in present tense, and those horrible "How to play a ..." -tables.)

SGL.

 

[Trifletraxor]

MAJOR RACES

The Aldryami-picture is the best illustration of a RQ-elf I have ever seen! Brilliant!

Content was also very good.

The dragonewt and mostali pictures were quite silly, as were the "How to act like an Aldryami", but all in all a good chapter.

EXCELLENT ALDRYAMI PICTURE!!!

SGL.