Glorantha: The New Age?

[TrippyHippy]

There has been a number of suggestions from RuneQuest fans requesting a 'modern' version of the RuneQuest rules (as well as a sci-fi version). Much of this has been tempered with the ascendancy of the Mongoose Traveller rules for such projects.

This makes sense in this regard - the 'modern' tag does sit a lot easier on the generic Traveller concept. Indeed, one could say it would undermine the RuneQuest brand by comparison - 'modern' implying a shift away from the spiritualist/ancient cultural style of fantasy that many associate with the game. Don't forget that Greg Stafford was something of an anthropologist/shaman himself, whilst characteristics like POWer don't really sit as well as, say, EDUcation does in the modern world.

However, I do think that a contemporary-ish fantasy, in the mold of Harry Potter or Artemis Fowl, still makes a good option for the RuneQuest rules. Certain cultures, professions and skills would need to be changed, along with the equipment lists, but there is every indication that you could have a 'hidden world' style fantasy setting without switching away from the core rules themselves (just a different setting). You could still use all the Monster stats from the Monster Coliseum, for example - just have rules that allow you to shoot them with guns (or possibly just make guns ineffective against 'magical creatures').

Having seen the legal ups and downs of trying to do this with various licenses, why not simply adapt the already licensed Glorantha material to create a new, much later 'Age', in a manner not dissimilar to the way Shadowrun was loosely linked to the world of Earthdawn, or Mage was with Ars Magica. Just have some global event emerge that 'brings magic back to the world' in an animistic form or some-such, and then develop it from there. As long as it doesn't become bland or twee, it could work really well. I wonder what cults could exist in the modern world to belong to....

Incidently, with some recent rumours of White Wolf beginning to tire of the tabletop RPG market, there could be a big market for such concepts in the not too distant future.....

Thoughts?

 

[Loz]

The problem with such an idea is that Glorantha is still Greg Stafford's creation and IP, licensed to Mongoose and Moon. Greg has ideas for what happens to Glorantha at the culmination of the Hero Wars (in Glorantha's Third Age) and these don't necessarily fit with what you're suggesting. Ultimately, Glorantha's final direction is still in Greg's hands: its not something that can be as easily developed as you suggest (nice idea though that is!)

 

[TrippyHippy]

Has anybody asked him if he wants to be involved?

 

[Loz]

Greg has a definite plan for what happens with/to Glorantha. I can't say more than that.

 

[vistikos]

Greg has a definite plan for what happens with/to Glorantha. I can't say more than that.

8) Excellent News!

 

[zozotroll]

Yes , but in the past Greg has changed his mind like others change thier socks.

Loz, can you tell us, is the RQ license also held by Greg? It seems liie RQ may be a bit more flexible to work with.

 

[Loz]

Yes , but in the past Greg has changed his mind like others change thier socks.

Loz, can you tell us, is the RQ license also held by Greg? It seems liie RQ may be a bit more flexible to work with.

I'm the wrong person to ask here.

I also think too different things are being spoken of. The OP concerned creating a 'Modern Age' Glorantha, one, I presume, where Glorantha is industrialised but all the old religions and cults remain; a 5th or 6th age. What I've been trying to say here is that Greg has definite, firm, ideas about what happens to Glorantha beyond the 3rd Age. He may change his mind on details, but on the general direction, its pretty fixed. I think that anyone attempting to create a new 'age' for Glorantha, be it under RQ or in any other way, is going to find it very, very tough indeed.

Secondly, there seems to be a call for a 'modern' set of RQ rules. I've no idea if this will happen or not; but there's no barrier to creating rules for computers, firearms, spaceship and so on - its a just a question of priorities.

 

[TrippyHippy]

What I'm basically suggesting is a contemporary fantasy setting, which can still use 90% of the core rules. The fact that much of the core rules are still based upon Glorantha (especially the monsters) would make an easier conversion. Rather than make a 'RuneQuest Modern' rulebook, actually develop a setting that includes the necessary rules additions/alterations.

I do get that the Glorantha license specifics may make this difficult, but I do think there would be an appetite for this sort of thing. If not Glorantha, then maybe just a contemporary fantasy setting inspired by the Glorantha setting instead, or just vaguely and thematically linked like WoD is to Exalted?

It would be a more fantasy inclined contrast to the sci-fi tropes of Codename: Veil, and the two could sit along each quite nicely I think.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Secondly, there seems to be a call for a 'modern' set of RQ rules. I've no idea if this will happen or not; but there's no barrier to creating rules for computers, firearms, spaceship and so on - its a just a question of priorities.

There is another Mongoose-held Licence that is much more relevant for producing "RQ Modern" - The Moorcock/Eternal Champion line - Jerry Cornelius (and Jerry Cornell) would provide a "modern" setting, and ought to be one of the next EC settings after Elric/Hawkmoon/Corum (the other "obvious" choice would be Jherek Carnelian /"Dancers at the end of Time" which is probably going so far beyond a "modern setting with some magic" as to be indistinguishable from pure fantasy...)

Loz - Are you prepared/able to speculate on the possibilities of the EC line beyond the announcements in the State of Mongoose?

 

[zozotroll]

Isnt Wraith Recon a sort of modern fantasy? I dont really know that much about it, but Matt did say that WR was going to RQ, so there may be enough in there to do an alternate setting.

 

[SnowDog]

Isnt Wraith Recon a sort of modern fantasy? I dont really know that much about it, but Matt did say that WR was going to RQ, so there may be enough in there to do an alternate setting.

WR is a fantasy setting with modern elements (like spec ops and modern tech in the form of magic).

 

[SnowDog]

There has been a number of suggestions from RuneQuest fans requesting a 'modern' version of the RuneQuest rules (as well as a sci-fi version). Much of this has been tempered with the ascendancy of the Mongoose Traveller rules for such projects.

Yes, it seems that the success of Traveller has cemented the idea that all modern and scifi settings made by Mongoose will use Traveller engine.

This makes sense in this regard - the 'modern' tag does sit a lot easier on the generic Traveller concept. Indeed, one could say it would undermine the RuneQuest brand by comparison - 'modern' implying a shift away from the spiritualist/ancient cultural style of fantasy that many associate with the game. Don't forget that Greg Stafford was something of an anthropologist/shaman himself, whilst characteristics like POWer don't really sit as well as, say, EDUcation does in the modern world.

I don't know about Stafford but as RQ has it's roots in BRP. Even the more modern BRP corebook has POW as a basic stat, IIRC. CoC uses it but then again it falls to the same realm that you are suggesting. Personally I would use POW (in a modern non-magical setting) as willpower.

Having seen the legal ups and downs of trying to do this with various licenses, why not simply adapt the already licensed Glorantha material to create a new, much later 'Age', in a manner not dissimilar to the way Shadowrun was loosely linked to the world of Earthdawn, or Mage was with Ars Magica. Just have some global event emerge that 'brings magic back to the world' in an animistic form or some-such, and then develop it from there. As long as it doesn't become bland or twee, it could work really well. I wonder what cults could exist in the modern world to belong to....

Shadowrun was there before Earthdawn, IIRC but I can see what you are after. But yes, the idea is good but according to later comments it seems pretty hard to create.

Incidently, with some recent rumours of White Wolf beginning to tire of the tabletop RPG market, there could be a big market for such concepts in the not too distant future.....

Thoughts?

Really? I didn't know that about White Wolf. But the thing with the White Wolf is the monsters (or in one rare case the mages). WW (WoD) players want their vampires and werewolves to move on to Mongoose fold.

 

[Loz]

There is another Mongoose-held Licence that is much more relevant for producing "RQ Modern" - The Moorcock/Eternal Champion line - Jerry Cornelius (and Jerry Cornell) would provide a "modern" setting, and ought to be one of the next EC settings after Elric/Hawkmoon/Corum (the other "obvious" choice would be Jherek Carnelian /"Dancers at the end of Time" which is probably going so far beyond a "modern setting with some magic" as to be indistinguishable from pure fantasy...)

Loz - Are you prepared/able to speculate on the possibilities of the EC line beyond the announcements in the State of Mongoose?

Its not that there's any great secret, just that its too early to say precisely what books will extend the line (but it will be extended). I completely agree that a Jerry Cornelius book would be great and yes, you're right, it would need some modern rules to support the core RQII rules. My general feeling is that the Dancers/Cornelius and Bastable sagas need a different approach to the far more detailed Elric/Hawkmoon/Corum sagas - mainly because each of the former are far more mutable than the latter. But I haven't speculated properly on how they should be different or what form such a book or books would need to take.

 

[ffilz]

I don't know about Stafford but as RQ has it's roots in BRP.

You've got that backwards. BRP has it's root in RQ.

Frank

 

[SnowDog]

You've got that backwards. BRP has it's root in RQ.

Frank

Really? Okay, thanks for the correction Still, POW is quite useful in modern settings even without supernatural elements.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Its not that there's any great secret, just that its too early to say precisely what books will extend the line

I expected that that would be the case, but of course, is there was a great secret, we wouldn't know about it anyway!

My general feeling is that the Dancers/Cornelius and Bastable sagas need a different approach to the far more detailed Elric/Hawkmoon/Corum sagas - mainly because each of the former are far more mutable than the latter. But I haven't speculated properly on how they should be different or what form such a book or books would need to take.

How about a "Brothel in Rosenstrasse" game based on Baron Munchausen? Players trapped in a city under seige distract each other with tales of their past exploits...

 

[peterb]

I don't know about Stafford but as RQ has it's roots in BRP.

You've got that backwards. BRP has it's root in RQ.

Frank

To make it even more clear:

Chaoisum released the first edition of RQ in 1978. BRP was released a few years later. Mongoose was able to make a new version of RQ because Greg Stafford nicked the trademark RuneQuest just under the nose of Chaoisum and licensed it to Mongoose.

So Chaosiums RQ is the ancestor of BRP. BRP predates Mongoose RQ.

 

[B_Steele]

Greg Stafford nicked...

Careful, man. Saying something like that in regards to Greg and RuneQuest in the same breath could really bring the hounds out.

Glorantha has always been his baby, and I will always give respect to the man for that. Disrespect to the man has no place in any RuneQuest forum, in my humble opinions.

-Bry

 

[TrippyHippy]

You've got that backwards. BRP has it's root in RQ.

Frank

To make it even more clear:

Chaoisum released the first edition of RQ in 1978. BRP was released a few years later. Mongoose was able to make a new version of RQ because Greg Stafford nicked the trademark RuneQuest just under the nose of Chaoisum and licensed it to Mongoose.

So Chaosiums RQ is the ancestor of BRP. BRP predates Mongoose RQ.

It's a skewed version of events. The BRP/MRQ editions that are now current were developed, independent of each other, at more or less the same time. MRQ was published first. Greg Stafford has always had rights to Glorantha and the RuneQuest logo reverted to him after Chaosium basically sold it in the mid-80s and it seemingly being bounced around all over the place since then. He'd been developing the HeroQuest stuff in the meantime, but Mongoose did the legal work to re-invent the RQ game with his backing, after about 20 years in limbo. The BRP that was released in 1980 was only a few pages long, and had about 8 skills listed on the sheet. It was not a fully fledged 'system' that we are aware of now, although it was obviously the house system of several keynote Chaosium games released after that point (beyond RQ).

I like Chaosium, for their historical contributions to gaming, and the fact that they keep chugging along with interesting support for CoC and BRP now. But people need to stop the indignant bickering on who came first, and just enjoy the systems as they are now for their own gaming enjoyment.

For me, BRP is a tool box of ideas, but MRQ is a more focused product. I don't see the two as being mutually exclusive in use. Just different.

 

[Christopher Graves]

To make it even more clear:

Chaoisum released the first edition of RQ in 1978. BRP was released a few years later. Mongoose was able to make a new version of RQ because Greg Stafford nicked the trademark RuneQuest just under the nose of Chaoisum and licensed it to Mongoose.

So Chaosiums RQ is the ancestor of BRP. BRP predates Mongoose RQ.

It's a skewed version of events. The BRP/MRQ editions that are now current were developed, independent of each other, at more or less the same time. MRQ was published first. Greg Stafford has always had rights to Glorantha and the RuneQuest logo reverted to him after Chaosium basically sold it in the mid-80s and it seemingly being bounced around all over the place since then. He'd been developing the HeroQuest stuff in the meantime, but Mongoose did the legal work to re-invent the RQ game with his backing, after about 20 years in limbo. The BRP that was released in 1980 was only a few pages long, and had about 8 skills listed on the sheet. It was not a fully fledged 'system' that we are aware of now, although it was obviously the house system of several keynote Chaosium games released after that point (beyond RQ).

I like Chaosium, for their historical contributions to gaming, and the fact that they keep chugging along with interesting support for CoC and BRP now. But people need to stop the indignant bickering on who came first, and just enjoy the systems as they are now for their own gaming enjoyment.

For me, BRP is a tool box of ideas, but MRQ is a more focused product. I don't see the two as being mutually exclusive in use. Just different.

Well said, and all the pissy criticism by playtesters and 'wannabees' that have never actually produced any serious work of their own (there is but a handful out of this lot that would qualify as serious producers of material) could be toned down in favor of getting a little self respect and possibly a life. Its so much easier to tear things down than build them up.