Glorantha, races and other RQ related questions

[Jegergryte]

First off, Hi guys!
I am new to RuneQuest, so abbreviations and "inside terms" I readily admit, will not be understood, to begin with. Just a warning
I guess this is not the forum to be doing presentations, so I will find that place later. Off to my inquiries.

I am sitting here looking in the RQ Deluxe book and "Glorantha, The Second Age", in particular I am looking at elves or elfs. The first thing that strikes me, is the art and the difference in how they look in the two books. Also the name presented in the Glorantha book. I know the RQ book is mainly taking Glorantha as a base (if I understood that part correctly) so I am aware that there might be things in the RQ book that is not entirely Glorntha-esque or Glorantha-native, still, it confuses me, are the Aldryami the only elfs, or are both present in (on?) Glorantha?
Also, this might just be me and might not be of importance, but I also noticed difference in style, as in art style, humans and the world seems to me to be presented and represented in different ways the the two books.

This leads to my next little question, is the Glorantha, The Second Age the main book on Glorantha? or is there another book on the world, I know there are a few books, but which one gives the best overview of the world, geography, nations, races, cultures and history?

I am very keen on testing this game, in the past I have played various incarnations of Dnd (and different OGL settings like Iron Kingdoms, Warcraft, Wheel of Time, Forgotten Realms, Mystara, Ravenloft), Rolemaster, MERP, HARP, Legend of the Five Rings (both d20 and roll-and-keep system), 7th Sea and a bunch of sci-fi and space opera games. I’ve had my eyes on RuneQuest since I was wee and wet behind my ears, but never had the guts or the chance to pick up a copy until today.
Being keen on this game, I’d of course like to play the intended setting, since making a setting of my own (which I am doing more or less professionally for HARP at the moment) takes time, effort and such things which I am not getting any more of with work and a woman in my life and house, in addition to being the sole GM in my immediate social circle, running two-three different gaming groups.
So I need a good overview, introduction and such for Glorantha, which would be the best book or books?

I am sure there was more I was wondering about (such as compatibility with Elric of Melniboné ? system wise that is), but the need for a good, broad book on the setting, giving all the basics and some of the more specific stuff on the aforementioned (in particular stats) is what I feel.

Anyone?

and I want to end this post with a bow in respect to the creator(s) of the system, the little I have digested have impressed me greatly. Thank you.

 

[Loz]

Welcome aboard!

Okay, several questions to answer.

Elves/Elfs, first. They do differ between the RQ core rules and Glorantha. In fact, Glorantha has an entire sourcebook (The Aldryami) dedicated to them. Gloranthan elfs are tied heavily to plants and are not the archetypal 'Tolkien Pointy Eared' elf. If you want to explore the elfs in greater depth in your Glorantha campaign (and I recommend it), then the Aldryami book will give you everything, and more, than you need.

Second, Glorantha: the Second Age is the core setting book. It offers a brilliant overview of the world and the cultures within it. Other books, like the Cults and Magic book, expand on this. They're very important for play, because Glorantha is rooted in its cults and religions. Also of importance is 'Players Guide to Glorantha' because this gives you the essentials for creating authentic Gloranthan characters - cultural backgrounds, new professions, and so on.

Other books, like Aldryami and Dragonewts, dive deep into specific races and cultures. There's a Dwarfs (Mostali) book in the pipeline.

Then we have the two campaigns. 'Blood of Orlanth' is an epic that will provide months, if not years of game-play for characters from any of the major backgrounds of Glorantha and is a great way of really introducing new players to the world. 'Dara Happa Stirs' is a deep-dive study and campaign for one particular culture (Dara Happa).

Also, RQ/Glorantha is 100% compatible with Elric of Melnibone. They use the same system. The magic, though is very different. You could certainly port the Elric magic into Glorantha, but porting Gloranthan/RQ magic into Elric is probably more problematic just from a themic point of view - but still do-able.

Hope this helps.

 

[Utgardloki]

I started a thread asking which books were essential for Glorantha and which ones I should give priority to. It should still be near the top; it's called "Essential Glorantha books" or something like that.

 

[soltakss]

I am new to RuneQuest, so abbreviations and "inside terms" I readily admit, will not be understood, to begin with. Just a warning

No problem. I tend not to like jargon either.

I guess this is not the forum to be doing presentations, so I will find that place later. Off to my inquiries.

As far as I know, this forum is for RuneQuest and its settings, so almost anything is fair game.

I am sitting here looking in the RQ Deluxe book and "Glorantha, The Second Age", in particular I am looking at elves or elfs. The first thing that strikes me, is the art and the difference in how they look in the two books. Also the name presented in the Glorantha book. I know the RQ book is mainly taking Glorantha as a base (if I understood that part correctly) so I am aware that there might be things in the RQ book that is not entirely Glorntha-esque or Glorantha-native, still, it confuses me, are the Aldryami the only elfs, or are both present in (on?) Glorantha?

Aldryami are the children of Aldrya the main Forest Goddess of Glorantha.

Aldrya had many children, all are called Aldryami. They include:

• Dryads
  Intelligent Trees
  Walking Trees
  Elves
  Runners
  Pixies

So, in Glorantha all Elves are Aldryami but not all Aldryami are elves.

Since Aldryami are plant-people, some artists have drawn elves as being very planty. That's not how I see them, I see them more as traditional elves but with plant natures. But, that's just an artistic viewpoint and I will never be illustrating anything.

If you think about it, Elves from Middle earth will look different to those in Discworld or those in Glorantha because they are different.

Also, this might just be me and might not be of importance, but I also noticed difference in style, as in art style, humans and the world seems to me to be presented and represented in different ways the the two books.

This leads to my next little question, is the Glorantha, The Second Age the main book on Glorantha? or is there another book on the world, I know there are a few books, but which one gives the best overview of the world, geography, nations, races, cultures and history?

For the best overview, Glorantha The Second Age is the one to have. It goes into everything in a little bit of detail and is very wide-ranging.

Depending on what areas you might be interested in, there are a numebr of sourcebooks covering different cultures, species and so on.

I am very keen on testing this game, in the past I have played various incarnations of Dnd (and different OGL settings like Iron Kingdoms, Warcraft, Wheel of Time, Forgotten Realms, Mystara, Ravenloft), Rolemaster, MERP, HARP, Legend of the Five Rings (both d20 and roll-and-keep system), 7th Sea and a bunch of sci-fi and space opera games. I’ve had my eyes on RuneQuest since I was wee and wet behind my ears, but never had the guts or the chance to pick up a copy until today.

I hope you enjoy it. I always have.

Glorantha is the best RQ setting, in my opinion, but there are others. Elric and Hawkmoon have had some good supplements, Lhankmar has had a couple and Slaine has one supplement.

But, Glorantha is the RQ powerhouse.

I am sure there was more I was wondering about (such as compatibility with Elric of Melniboné ? system wise that is), but the need for a good, broad book on the setting, giving all the basics and some of the more specific stuff on the aforementioned (in particular stats) is what I feel.

RQ Deluxe contains a lot of the rules and a lot of the monsters/creatures for Glorantha.

Glorantha the Second Age has a lot of info.

Cults of Glorantha has writeups of a lot of Gloranthan cults and cults make Glorantha intersting, so it's worth a look.

Players Guide to Glorantha has a lot of information on non-humans.

The rest are setting-specific, although some cover larger areas. I would think about which areas you want to use in your campaign and buy things only for those areas rather than buying everything and getting bogged down.

 

[Rurik]

I'll add a couple of points to the above (very good) answers.

Glorantha has been a game world since before RPG's (it started with a boardgame in the sixties), so has been around and grown and changed for a while. It was originally associated with RQ and is currently still used as a setting for another RPG, HeroQuest. Previous versions of RQ and HeroQuest are all set in the Third Age, and Mongoose RQ is set in the earlier Second Age. You may or may not know this, but is important regarding my next point.

Mongoose licensed the RQ name and the Glorantha setting, and so is presenting a new take on well established material. I consider Glorantha, the Second Age as a great introduction/overview to the world, and is definately the most accessible to someone new to the world.

BUT...

The art direction in the earlier Mongoose Glorantha books was not as 'accurate' as it could have been. Illustrations in Glorantha the Second Age, the Cults books, etc. are often not as accurate representations of the established look and feel of the world as the later books.

The later books (Elves, Dragonnewts, Blood of Orlanth, Darra Happa Stirs, etc) are MUCH better (and kudos to Mongoose for fixing this).

As a general rule, look at the publishers book number on the back of the book (looks like MGP81XX) - the higher the number the better the art at representing Glorantha.

 

[StephenT]

I am sitting here looking in the RQ Deluxe book and "Glorantha, The Second Age", in particular I am looking at elves or elfs.

My understanding is that the basic RQ rules are intended to be generic fantasy. You can use them to create your own game world, or you can buy into one of the settings published by Mongoose or their licencees. For that reason, the elves presented in RQ Deluxe are generic fantasy elves.

Glorantha is one of the RQ settings - the largest, oldest and best-supported one, and as Rurik says, the one that actually predated the RQ rule system by over a decade.

The creatures known in Glorantha as Aldryami include slender humanoids with pointed ears who enjoy songs and poetry, live in the forests and are skilled bowmen - so the word 'Aldryami' is translated into English as 'elves' (or 'elfs', according to Mongoose's in-house dictionary). But the superficial resemblance hides lots of differences once you look closer, such as the fact that Gloranthan "elves" have wooden bones and leafy green hair that lets them draw energy from sunlight...

 

[Sinisalo]

Yeah my elves are basically tolkein elves but with leaf hair and a bit of bark on the elbows and feet.

 

[Jegergryte]

Thanks for answers, points of view and opinions. Much and truly appreciated.

I’ve been reading some more, and while the world seems intriguing, it seems to be a bit too, I don’t know, I have a hard time swallowing the whole idea, not that I think that its a bad or silly world, just not my cup of tea, pint of lager or other fancy metaphor for "thing". Although I realised the fact that it’s the second age, and that previous editions were set in the third age, which then makes me more interested in the third age (in hopes that it might differ on certain aspects). I presume that getting hold of third age books and information will take me to ebay followed by expenses that may or may not be worth it.
Is there any plans, known to anyone of you, of releasing the third age for this edition of RQ?
Does anyone here know the reasoning behind going "back an age" for this edition and leaving the third age a now none-existing (or inactive and dead) product line?

 

[Darran]

Is there any plans, known to anyone of you, of releasing the third age for this edition of RQ?

As far as I know the licence agreement for Mongoose to print Gloranthan works is that it has to be set in the 2nd Age of Glorantha.
The Third age of Glorantha is covered by HeroQuest and is published by Issaries and Moon Designs Productions.

Does anyone here know the reasoning behind going "back an age" for this edition and leaving the third age a now none-existing (or inactive and dead) product line?

I think the reason for "going back an age" was to give the Mongoose writers a bit more creative freedom in developing a new line of books with some different stories and adventures. It would also save 'treading on toes' of Issaries and Moon Designs Productions works and avoids the over-lap.

The third age is still in print and more works are on the way.
The second edition of HeroQuest will be out soon along with more supportive books about the third age such as the forthcoming ‘Cults of Sartar’ book and ‘Pavis: Gateway to Glorantha’.

 

[Cleombrotus]

I've always used the term "Aldryami" to justify all physical types of Elf. If I want a more 'Tolkienesque' elf, then they are truer to their Dryad heritage. If I want a more treelike elf, then they are truer to their plant heritage. I try to give them mental and physical features that symbolise their tree as far as I imagine it.

I don't have the Mongoose sourcebook, but I always remember a passage in Genertela: Crucible of the Hero Wars where the Elf Reforestation was mentioned. This always made me feel that the true strength of the Elder Races lay with the Aldryami, and gave me a sense of a collective unconscious, epitomised by the Elfsense skill, and the idea that the greatest threat to humans in Glorantha was not from chaos, but from the Aldryami with their completely alien motives and biological/mythological unity.

Frequent civil wars notwithstanding.

 

[Jegergryte]

All right, so the third age is still going strong, but under a different publisher, and therefore I presume a different system too?

I’ve been looking at the other settings supplied for RQ: Elric of Melniboné, Lankhmar, Hawkmoon and Slaine, whilst I’m reading Micheal Moorcock at the moment, I’ve yet to read the Elric books, but I am familiar with the idea.
The three remaining though, I know little to nothing about.

I am a "realist fan", having many years of experience from Rolemaster and HARP (can do that to you), which in turn makes me a bit skeptical to Glorantha and the little I now know about its make up.
Also, being a big fan of the Elder Scrolls games, I wonder if anyone here has tried to adapt RQ (or any other game system for that matter) to this setting, or the other way around...

 

[Cleombrotus]

I am a "realist fan", having many years of experience from Rolemaster and HARP (can do that to you), which in turn makes me a bit skeptical to Glorantha and the little I now know about its make up.

I consider myself to be a "realist fan" as well, bearing in mind what that means as a fantasy roleplayer, and I simply portray Glorantha that way. "Realism" in an rpg setting is not inherent, it's portrayed. I know of another long term Runequester who always envisaged Glorantha as extremely high fantasy, almost like Talislanta. Glorantha can handle both styles easily - it's about how you run it.

Also, being a big fan of the Elder Scrolls games, I wonder if anyone here has tried to adapt RQ (or any other game system for that matter) to this setting, or the other way around...

For those who know Glorantha and The Elder Scrolls, the two are very closely linked, and there are many Gloranthan/Runequest references throughout the computer game.

By the way, wouldn't The River of Cradles be a fantastic setting for an Elder Scrolls computer game?

 

[Loz]

If you're interested in 3rd Age Glorantha more than 2nd Age, then Moon Design has in-print collections of the RuneQuest Classics - the original 3rd Age Glorantha boxed sets and books from the 80s when RQ was published by Chaosium. They're more or less compatible with the MRQ core rules and very good value (as well as brilliant in terms of content).

But Glorantha's well worth looking into in the 2nd Age too. the Mongoose stable is beginning the deep-dive into the world and, far from being anti-realist, still has lots of grit and grime of the kind found in Harn and Rolemaster. Although obviously the emphasis on myth gives it a very different twist. It actually makes a good comparison with both systems, and a change from the hard realism they offer.

Do read the Elric stories. Then get the Elric RQ game. Okay, I'm biased because I wrote it, but the Elric stories are wonderful, and if you're familiar with Moorcock now, then I hope you'll find the game reflects the tone and scope of his writing.

Slaine is based on the 2000AD comic strip. Its a Celtic-feel fantasy game; a little Conan-esque but with a character all of its own, too. Again, worth a look if you're afan of Swords n Sorcery.

Seems to me though, that you have a whole world of options at your feet. Take your time, choose the one that suits your interests and gaming preferences the best and have a ball!

 

[Darran]

For those who know Glorantha and The Elder Scrolls, the two are very closely linked, and there are many Gloranthan/Runequest references throughout the computer game.

By the way, wouldn't The River of Cradles be a fantastic setting for an Elder Scrolls computer game?

Ken Rolston, who worked on the RuneQuest line that included River of Cradles, Sun County and Shadows on the Borderlands also worked on the Elder Scrolls.

Ken Rolston was a Guest of Honour at Continuum 2006.

 

[The Greek]

I
The later books (Elves, Dragonnewts, Blood of Orlanth, Darra Happa Stirs, etc) are MUCH better (and kudos to Mongoose for fixing this).

Thanks. It's nice to be appreciated.

 

[Jegergryte]

Perhpas my problem is the focus on myths, I’m not a great fan of that, not to say that I don’t like it, but in my games (and the world I’m co-creating/writing for HARP) has myths, but thats what they are, myths, not facts, which is the way I like it. I have no problem with myths, my issue is when the myths becomes tangible, real and thus the center of attention and revolved around, in a more direct way, I like the myths mythic, vague, as legends, more than a real thing. Myths in my opinion should be presentations of the past that are symbolic and serve as metaphors, more than anything else.
All this being said, I don’t know Glorantha, so many of my issues may seem strange to long time Glorantha fans/players/GMs, but I get disheartened reading the "Glorantha, Second Age" setting book/companion. Perhaps I’m used to a different style of writing and way of portraying settings, which of course can be seen as silly, but for me it’s quite important, as it sets the mood for the digestion of the material and how I end up seeing the world. I loose interest whilst reading it, there is something about the cultures, the two empires and the religions that just keep annoying me. That being said, I’m not biggy on religions either, religions for me is a tool, political and/or otherwise, that I most of the time have a hard time to accept in most games, unless portrayed in an abstract and distant way, for example Forgotten Realms’ portrayal and the dnd way of presenting gods I find unimaginative, boring and irritating, I’m no fan of epic god battles, divine intervention or the like. Not to say the Glorantha strikes me as something like Forgotten Realms, they are quite different I feel, the gods and all are presented different and feel different, but there is still something that nags me about it. The whole God Learner changing myths and the Hero Plane (or whatever it’s called).

I had a feeling that the elder scrolls series have something, if not in common, some shared ideas at least. Has anyone here tried an adaptation of The Elder Scrolls for RQ or any other game system?

I feel it’s going to take time to get into RQ, just deciding on a setting has never been so difficult before, but I want to play very soon, as my players are impatient, so well... perhaps I’ll make a concoction of my of own, and perhaps later fit it into and adapt it to some other world.
Has anyone checked out the Land of the Samurai book? (I’m a biggy on samurai and Legend of the Five Rings).

 

[Cleombrotus]

I think that the extent to which the mythology plays a part in your game is a matter of choice. Some people like to go full on for the mythic Glorantha, others like it in the background.
So gods and myths are real. This is countered by the fact that the gods are neither omniscient nor omnipotent. They must act through their worshippers. In the 2nd age, someone correct me if I'm wrong, the gods have even less influence on mortals, since the 2nd age has shown a shift in power from gods to men. Only at the end does the mythological reality reassert itself with cataclysmic effects.
I think that since certain mythological realities can be changed that you could easily go down the route of tribes who have lost their gods/wyters/spirits whatever. If I understand the Goddess Switch at all, they may not even realise that they have lost anything at all.
The one sure thing about Glorantha is that it is big enough for you to find somewhere into which you can fit anything. Just learn enough to get an understanding of what's going on in the world at large and the 'rules' that govern it.

 

[Sinisalo]

What's interesting about Glorantha is that they actually found a way of presenting a spiritual experience without it just being cheap stage effects. Heroquesting is a sort of interactive mystery play both in game and for the people sat around the table rolling dice. It's very linear but has always been very succesful to play and often has profound effects on my players. Very often I get "ooh that's profound".

I might add though I'm more your "saddle sores and all" style GM. I like getting down and dirty in the slums and wastes and only very rarely heroquest.

As for the description of the Empires, I found them quite annoying but suddenly got it. This 2nd Age stuff is new for us too. We used to play brave barbarian highlanders against evil empire in the third age. Now in the second I'm still playing brave barbarian highlanders against the evil empire, but my barbarian highlanders have had their magic and traditions modified by Wyrmfriendism. They like the mystic insight but don't like being turned into "robots" in a huge imperial machine. It creates quite subtle political dilemas.

In my game anyway.

 

[Jegergryte]

Ok, what you are saying is of course blatantly obvious, the world is what I want it to be, so I’m determined to give it a try or a deeper delve at least, but I’m keeping my eye on Elric too, as.. well.. I’ve had my eyes on the whole Elric character since I saw the books and the old Stormbringer rpg.

Another matter, which is not entirely Glorantha oriented, being a bit more on the system side of things, how is reach handled in RQ? Most games have some take or another on this, depending on how abstract combat is handled, RQ seems to be using meters as the measuring unit, which is nice for me, meters being less of a brain case than feet (yay for the metric system). In "that other" game, with which I mean d20, have a 5 feet reach as basic (or 2 meters in SWRCR, 1 square in SWSE which equals approximately 1,5 meters), HARP uses feet, which roughly has the same estimate, of about 5 feet or so. I find these lacking, since weapons have different length, unarmed drastically shorter, both because arms and feet are usually shorter than longswords, but also because martial arts styles differ in focus, Aikido and Hung Gar Kung fu for example have a shorter reach and "danger zone" than say Tae Kwon Do and Karate, which have a longer reach. A Zwei Hander is approximately 2 meters, give or take, whilst a Gladius is what? 1,5-2 feet (a bit less than a meter)? Braodswords are around a meter, perhaps a bit more... this would of course affect reach and who you treat, in the case of Reaction free attacks, and movement and charges. Also, your own size (perhaps not the characteristic in game terms?) counts towards reach, we’ve all seen the guys with long arms holding a shorter man at bay...
When are you, this is basically my question I guess, all the other just late night thinking: When are you considered adjacent to your opponent?

 

[Sinisalo]

Oh I use the Call of Cthulhu rule on this . Spears go first (pikes before that) once contact is made. After that straight strike ranks.

As a 6ft 3 Judo man I have greater reach than most people I fight with. I get my grip first. But it is always my opponent who attacks first because he is just lighter and quicker. I know that is not really much evidence but there you go we were talking martial arts and its my twopenneth.