GenCon report Abbai Win
- Thread starter tschuma
- Start date
Admiral Phlop
Mongoose
We would welcome you all to come on down and play some games. We could make arragements with one of the local establishments to give us some table space. Just let us know when you want to get together. It would be a pleasure to meet some other players from other parts of the B5 universe.
Having fought an Abbai fleet this past weekend, I can say that they are indeed not nice to face.
It's all the attack dice they get that does it. They usually get criticals that will cripple enemy ships long before they go blooey. That's been the tendency in any Abbai fleet I've faced since Revised, so it's not a new phenomenon.
It's all the attack dice they get that does it. They usually get criticals that will cripple enemy ships long before they go blooey. That's been the tendency in any Abbai fleet I've faced since Revised, so it's not a new phenomenon.
I was at Gen Con, which event did they play in? I only was at the one, so didn't see the others. What were the fleets, what were the scenarios?
What folks have said repeatedly, is that the Abbai have issues at certain levels of play, and rely on swarm tactics far more than most to do well. The issues have been with the Kotha being not worth taking (and depending on the VP rule not worth launching), the Bimith being a loser hull, and the Lakara/Juyaca being so slow they get torn down before they get there.
Folks have said for a while that the Tiraca/Brisaria and the Milani are wonderful ships. Marata we differ on, as we have a lot of damage multiplier beams up here so the ship is really no better than the Milani.
So again... rather than trumpet 'Our guy wins!' how about what did he win with, what was he up against, what were the victory conditions?
(wish I had gotten to Indy sooner... would have liked to meet more folks, only got to play in the Saturday event. I just didn't know I was going until Thursday night.)
oh, and I was on a lot of pain killers and stuff most of the weekend, so if I walked right by the fight and didn't see it, I blame that...
Ripple
What folks have said repeatedly, is that the Abbai have issues at certain levels of play, and rely on swarm tactics far more than most to do well. The issues have been with the Kotha being not worth taking (and depending on the VP rule not worth launching), the Bimith being a loser hull, and the Lakara/Juyaca being so slow they get torn down before they get there.
Folks have said for a while that the Tiraca/Brisaria and the Milani are wonderful ships. Marata we differ on, as we have a lot of damage multiplier beams up here so the ship is really no better than the Milani.
So again... rather than trumpet 'Our guy wins!' how about what did he win with, what was he up against, what were the victory conditions?
(wish I had gotten to Indy sooner... would have liked to meet more folks, only got to play in the Saturday event. I just didn't know I was going until Thursday night.)
oh, and I was on a lot of pain killers and stuff most of the weekend, so if I walked right by the fight and didn't see it, I blame that...
Ripple
From what he stated it was a 6 point raid of which you had to take a battle level, which had to be the Lakara. I am not sure what the rest was, but I do know he used at least 3 Marta Transports and squadroned the Patrol level ships. I will find out Friday when we get together and get a detailed report. I know they used the Refit and Other Duties table which is where the Abbai really excel with shield upgrades. I do know that he played the ISA, Narn, and Shadows, other than that not sure. He is in the process of moving so has little or no acces to a computer.
The one thing that wee talked about is you have to play the Abbai completely different that any other fleet. The tatics that you use for most of the fleets in ACTA just will not work with the Abbai. In the games that I played agaisnt him. he was had at least 2 lines of ships. used All power to engines on the second turn to get within the 8" range of all the Twin -Linked dice and then rolled lots of dice. He let his shields absorb the incoming fire and did not worry about fighters, since all of the Abbai have Anti Fighter.
He told me in the Shadow game he forced the shadows into a corner and they could not get out because they would have moved into the midle of his fleet and had a ton of dice to roll.
tschuma
The one thing that wee talked about is you have to play the Abbai completely different that any other fleet. The tatics that you use for most of the fleets in ACTA just will not work with the Abbai. In the games that I played agaisnt him. he was had at least 2 lines of ships. used All power to engines on the second turn to get within the 8" range of all the Twin -Linked dice and then rolled lots of dice. He let his shields absorb the incoming fire and did not worry about fighters, since all of the Abbai have Anti Fighter.
He told me in the Shadow game he forced the shadows into a corner and they could not get out because they would have moved into the midle of his fleet and had a ton of dice to roll.
tschuma
Hhhmm...
Sounds like the rules used for the Saturday event as far selection rules go, but that event was only attended by three of us. There was three other events over the course of the weekend... a Drazi Green and Purple event, don't know the details on that one... and a Earth Civil war event and a Earth Minbari war event, so unlikely to have been Abbai, etc. So maybe the Green & Purple one...
Maybe the Saturday one was held at two different areas? Mongoose supplied me with prize stuff at the booth so it was official... hmm...
As to the tactics, I tend to agree, Abbai are different. I've tried the two wave approach with both Abbai and Drazi. Usual result against folks who have seen it is defeat in detail as you only get half your firepower into the fight while he gets all of his, on any one turn.
I'm surprised to hear he boxed in the shadows... I'll have to look at what you could do to force that. At six raid, and the Shadows force to take the unfixed stalker.... maybe... but the double move usually means they can jump into abbai blind zones fairly easily unless massively out sinked... at which point we're back to debating swarm vs Abbai having stones.
Still, love to hear some more of the details.
Ripple
Sounds like the rules used for the Saturday event as far selection rules go, but that event was only attended by three of us. There was three other events over the course of the weekend... a Drazi Green and Purple event, don't know the details on that one... and a Earth Civil war event and a Earth Minbari war event, so unlikely to have been Abbai, etc. So maybe the Green & Purple one...
Maybe the Saturday one was held at two different areas? Mongoose supplied me with prize stuff at the booth so it was official... hmm...
As to the tactics, I tend to agree, Abbai are different. I've tried the two wave approach with both Abbai and Drazi. Usual result against folks who have seen it is defeat in detail as you only get half your firepower into the fight while he gets all of his, on any one turn.
I'm surprised to hear he boxed in the shadows... I'll have to look at what you could do to force that. At six raid, and the Shadows force to take the unfixed stalker.... maybe... but the double move usually means they can jump into abbai blind zones fairly easily unless massively out sinked... at which point we're back to debating swarm vs Abbai having stones.
Still, love to hear some more of the details.
Ripple
BTW.... we had a number of folks at GenCon come by the table while we were playing, anyone care to chime in?
The event I played saturday had two Drazi players and a Centauri player.
Fleets were Centauri -
Secundus, Centurian, Darkner, two Maximus, three Demos
Drazi one (me) -
Stormfalcon, Firehawk, two Warbirds, three Strikehawks, Guardhawk, Sunhawk (I went back and forth a few times on the final two... almost took the Jumphawk instead, or two Guards, or two Suns, or the Sleekbirds...)
Drazi two -
Stormfalcon, Firehawk, two Warbirds, two Darkhawks, Guardhawk, Eyehawk, wing of Star Snakes, wing of Sky Serpents, I think...fighter might be off a bit.
Learned a few things about how others play that might be different depending on local understanding of the rules. Things like stopping on Planets, fighters on support getting additional moves, fighters going on support in a turn (they move to support before the other player moves his fighters) not getting to come out and dogfight, not measuring ranges while moving as a courtesy thing... stuff that is easy to see from reading the rules could be viewed either way.
Lesson... try to tighten the rules up a bit so we're a bit closer to playing the same game and try make sure you have a clear idea why you play things one way vs another for visitors to the playhouse.
Oh, and despite taking a lots of 6-6 crits (really, no less than two a game) the Centauri player cleaned out clocks quite well... though the scenario helped a bit on the first one...
Ripple
The event I played saturday had two Drazi players and a Centauri player.
Fleets were Centauri -
Secundus, Centurian, Darkner, two Maximus, three Demos
Drazi one (me) -
Stormfalcon, Firehawk, two Warbirds, three Strikehawks, Guardhawk, Sunhawk (I went back and forth a few times on the final two... almost took the Jumphawk instead, or two Guards, or two Suns, or the Sleekbirds...)
Drazi two -
Stormfalcon, Firehawk, two Warbirds, two Darkhawks, Guardhawk, Eyehawk, wing of Star Snakes, wing of Sky Serpents, I think...fighter might be off a bit.
Learned a few things about how others play that might be different depending on local understanding of the rules. Things like stopping on Planets, fighters on support getting additional moves, fighters going on support in a turn (they move to support before the other player moves his fighters) not getting to come out and dogfight, not measuring ranges while moving as a courtesy thing... stuff that is easy to see from reading the rules could be viewed either way.
Lesson... try to tighten the rules up a bit so we're a bit closer to playing the same game and try make sure you have a clear idea why you play things one way vs another for visitors to the playhouse.
Oh, and despite taking a lots of 6-6 crits (really, no less than two a game) the Centauri player cleaned out clocks quite well... though the scenario helped a bit on the first one...
Ripple
I was the MI at the Drazi/Centauri battle who hasn't picked up a 2nd edition book in probably the last year. 
If you guys do an event in Cincy, Bubba-Hotep and I might make the trip. I'll be sure to get in a couple of games before then.
James / Nezeray
I own too many games in Lexington that nobody here plays
If you guys do an event in Cincy, Bubba-Hotep and I might make the trip. I'll be sure to get in a couple of games before then.
James / Nezeray
I own too many games in Lexington that nobody here plays
The event we ran that Ripple played in was the Battle for Sector 14 pack. It did require 6 Raid, one had to be a Battle level or higher. It was the only scenario of that type being played that I saw listed as an event that week.
I spoke with the guy who ran the other events, and he seemed to like the format but didn't mention running anything similar.
What was discovered Saturday was that Double Damage trumps bore site beam almost always.
Although 2 flights of fighters taking out a Centurion before it could ever fire (with 2 6-6 crits on turn 2!) was a thing of beauty.
Who was the Abbai player and when did the other event get played?
Curt
I spoke with the guy who ran the other events, and he seemed to like the format but didn't mention running anything similar.
What was discovered Saturday was that Double Damage trumps bore site beam almost always.
Although 2 flights of fighters taking out a Centurion before it could ever fire (with 2 6-6 crits on turn 2!) was a thing of beauty.
Who was the Abbai player and when did the other event get played?
Curt
True enough... those DD hits were tough to absorb! Any one crit usually amounted to a dead ship.
Want to be clear about one thing in case I wasn't up above. Had a good time, and none of the stuff I mentioned about doing things differently was a slam on anyone. I just threw it out there because I see a lot of minor differences every time I play with other groups. It just seemed a good time to mention that effect, as it comes up when discussing who did how well where etc.
Given we're all chatting about how to change things or whether too... sometimes good to check we're getting similar effects.
Ripple
Want to be clear about one thing in case I wasn't up above. Had a good time, and none of the stuff I mentioned about doing things differently was a slam on anyone. I just threw it out there because I see a lot of minor differences every time I play with other groups. It just seemed a good time to mention that effect, as it comes up when discussing who did how well where etc.
Given we're all chatting about how to change things or whether too... sometimes good to check we're getting similar effects.
Ripple
I talked to our Abbai player last night and he stated it was a pickup tournament and not on the listing for official games at GenCon.
He alos stated that he had a great time and met some players from Indiana, Kentucky, and Ohio, and that we hope to have a few stop in at Acme in Cincinnati for a few games.
Of course if the gruop from Chicago is in the area, drop us a line and we can set something up.
tschuma
He alos stated that he had a great time and met some players from Indiana, Kentucky, and Ohio, and that we hope to have a few stop in at Acme in Cincinnati for a few games.
Of course if the gruop from Chicago is in the area, drop us a line and we can set something up.
tschuma
See what we can do... would love to meet some more folks.
I figured it had to be pick up, just curious where/when it got set up and what rules pack they used if any. Would have loved to get a few more games in, but the Mongoose area was generally empty... love to know where to look next time.
Any hint what he took? I've gone over some of my fights with the locals and tried to see if we called them too soon or something like that, and in a few cases I could see opportunities, but generally nothing I could accomplish at a tourney, as the time would have run out before I could cripple much.
Maybe a Vassal game or two if we can't get down that way?
Ripple
I figured it had to be pick up, just curious where/when it got set up and what rules pack they used if any. Would have loved to get a few more games in, but the Mongoose area was generally empty... love to know where to look next time.
Any hint what he took? I've gone over some of my fights with the locals and tried to see if we called them too soon or something like that, and in a few cases I could see opportunities, but generally nothing I could accomplish at a tourney, as the time would have run out before I could cripple much.
Maybe a Vassal game or two if we can't get down that way?
Ripple
Fleet List
1 Lakara, by choice
3 Marta Diplomatic Transport
2 Shyarie Scouts
2 Bisaria
6 Tiraca
He always squadroned the Tiraca and Bisaria ships. He basicallly played the same agaist them as us. 2 -3 lines of ships. using APE to get within range for his twinlinked guns with at least the first 2 lines of ships. THe Bisaria and Tiraca throws 6 dice twin-linked int he front arc, please name a patrol level ship that can do that, plus 3 dice to either side and in the case of the Tiraca a Precise Beam! Squadron 3 of these and now you have 18 Twein-Linked die and 3 die beam for the cost of a Skirmish and Patrol point. With the Comms Disrupters and how bad the Critical Hit table is, throw that in and any CQ are at a -2. He never plays fighters becasue all of the Abbai have Anti Fighter. He really doesn't care about incoming fire becasue the shields will absorb most in first turn and the seccond. Then as the first line peels off to regen,you now have the second and third line hitting you. His wins were very lopsided to say the least.
Like I have stated before you have to play them completely different than anyother fleet. Plus they reall don't need any help, in fact then need to be reduced some, like the shields. Lookat their ships and compare the shields to the Shadows who are suppose to be much older, right? They are twice as good if not 3 times better. Grant it the regen is not as good, but if your are playing a campaign the refits and other duties really puch them lus they can then get a inteceptor. All on a hull 6.
Needless to sa we are not going to playtest the new Abbi Ships or Rules, becasue they really push them over the top and don't need them. The Bimith could have just had the Lumbering remove and 1/45 instead of 2/45. The E-mine thing is not right. If this stays, then Iwill take the Abbai in a Planetary assualt everytime. place a bunch of e-mines arounds a planet and let then let them get close with only 2 FAP difference. HAHAHA! I do like the Skirmish ship but all fleets need a weakness in their fleet.
I hope that Matt reads this, becasue we all thought that the Abbai were broken until a couple of months ago.
tschuma
1 Lakara, by choice
3 Marta Diplomatic Transport
2 Shyarie Scouts
2 Bisaria
6 Tiraca
He always squadroned the Tiraca and Bisaria ships. He basicallly played the same agaist them as us. 2 -3 lines of ships. using APE to get within range for his twinlinked guns with at least the first 2 lines of ships. THe Bisaria and Tiraca throws 6 dice twin-linked int he front arc, please name a patrol level ship that can do that, plus 3 dice to either side and in the case of the Tiraca a Precise Beam! Squadron 3 of these and now you have 18 Twein-Linked die and 3 die beam for the cost of a Skirmish and Patrol point. With the Comms Disrupters and how bad the Critical Hit table is, throw that in and any CQ are at a -2. He never plays fighters becasue all of the Abbai have Anti Fighter. He really doesn't care about incoming fire becasue the shields will absorb most in first turn and the seccond. Then as the first line peels off to regen,you now have the second and third line hitting you. His wins were very lopsided to say the least.
Like I have stated before you have to play them completely different than anyother fleet. Plus they reall don't need any help, in fact then need to be reduced some, like the shields. Lookat their ships and compare the shields to the Shadows who are suppose to be much older, right? They are twice as good if not 3 times better. Grant it the regen is not as good, but if your are playing a campaign the refits and other duties really puch them lus they can then get a inteceptor. All on a hull 6.
Needless to sa we are not going to playtest the new Abbi Ships or Rules, becasue they really push them over the top and don't need them. The Bimith could have just had the Lumbering remove and 1/45 instead of 2/45. The E-mine thing is not right. If this stays, then Iwill take the Abbai in a Planetary assualt everytime. place a bunch of e-mines arounds a planet and let then let them get close with only 2 FAP difference. HAHAHA! I do like the Skirmish ship but all fleets need a weakness in their fleet.
I hope that Matt reads this, becasue we all thought that the Abbai were broken until a couple of months ago.
tschuma
