Game Number 2 today and hopefully number 3

[Lincolnlog]

Playing my second game today, will be trying the Federation. After the last game and knowing what was not being handled correctly, there will be minuses for both the Klingons and Federation.

Drones and ADD. We were playing if you had ADD 2, you could only shoot at waves of drones, this of course is not correct.

Federation combined Drone Racks. We were playing if you had Drones 4, you could hold one as ADD and fire the other three offesively, also not correct.

Klingon Forward Shields. We were playing you had to get 2 points to reduce one shild box, instead of damage divided by 2 rounded up.

So, this game should have a much different outcome and slightly different feel. We'll see.

OOB: 1000 points each.

Klingons: D7C, D7, 2 x D6, 2 x D5

Federation: BCG, 3 x CA, 2 x NCL

This game is being held a shop that is interested in selling the game. So I will talk with them and show them the rule book.

AAR afterwards( and photos hopefully).

 

[Da Boss]

Look forward to hearing how it goes

Are you using terrain? It does make a much more interesting game IMO and gives some interesting tactical options 8)

 

[Lincolnlog]

No, again not today. The focus today, is making sure we are using the rules correcly, and speeding up the game. The last game just took too long for a 3 Turn engagement.

Definitely planning to use terrain on the next on, and Cloaks! :twisted:

 

[Japherwaki]

Can I ask what store? I've been hoping to find a place that will carry this game in the St. Louis area.

 

[Lincolnlog]

Can I ask what store? I've been hoping to find a place that will carry this game in the St. Louis area.

Japherwaki,

I'm sorry, I didn't see your post until I got home. We played at Game Nite at 8330 Watson Rd St. Louis, MO 63119 . If you PM me your e-mail address, we are trying to do one game a month. I can add you to the list group.

Bob

P.S. They do intend to carry the rules and mini's, but have been unable to get either from the distributors.

 

[Lincolnlog]

Alright waiting for pictures to be sent I will have to add them later.

First of all, let me say this shop carries no Mongoose or ADB stuff. But they are extremely excited about this product line. Unfortunately their disrtibutors have all indicated the product is out of stock.

Had many interested people come by, but no one joined in. So, I played Federation, and Matt and Dave played Klingon.

Federation won the set up roll and caused the Klingons to set up first. Both fleets set up along the back edge of their deployment zones.

Turn 1: Federation won the Initiative

Not fully understanding the overload rules I overloaded the photons on the 3 CA's and on the Australia. I used the 2 NCL's to defend the Australia. This limitied the Fed mov to 6". The Federation decided not to fire on turn 1 and all weapons fire was defensive in nature.

The Klingons made a maxium move and fired the only weapons in range, drones all at Austrlia. Kearsarge lost her drone defending the Aussie. My tactic was to try and conserve the drones on Australia. No damage to any ships in turn 1.

Turn 2: Federation won initiative again.

Now the Klingons overloaded Disruptors. both sides moved up 6" the Federation CA's all boosted shields, except the 2 NCL's and Australia, which crossed over to port in front of the CA's. The 2 NCL's held their Photons, but Australia unleashed hers, and the 3 CA's at one of the D5's IKV Racker. Racker was damaged, but so was Australia, and Australia lost 1 drone defending agains drones.

Turn 3: Klingons won initiative

Now the furball, Constitution ended up off the starboard wing on the D7 and let it have it with a full spread of photon's and 6 phaser 1, hold the drone and Phaser-3s for defense. The D7 was damaged. Connie came thru the turn unscathed. Most of the Klinon Fleet ended up encircling Australia. The NCLs let Racker have it all. Australia miraculously survies the turn but is hurting severly. Racker dies.

Turn 4: Federation wins initiative

Australia limps off (crippled) but the Klingons compete for the glory of the kill. 2 Ships end up in close proximity. The 2 NCLs are reloading photons and blow through and past the furball. Australia explodes and in the same turn the Federation player kills one of the D6's. Both ships explode but they are not within 4" of any other player. In this turn Enterprise and Yorktown take extensive damage.

Turn 5: Federation win initiative

York town attempts to get far enough away to repair some shields and reload Photons. But the D7C Dawnslayer will have none of that. Here is where I made a huge tactical blunder. I should have fired Yorktown first, 6 Phaser-1s at the Dawnslayer directly to the rear. I fired Enterprise which I fired Connie which I had manuevered to within 2" of one of the D6's. I through everything at the D6, and damaged it severely. Enterprise shot at the rear of the D7C and hurt it. But the D7C killed Yorktown, the other Klingons finished off Enterprise. I now had 3 ships in Fairly resonable shape. The Klingons had 4 ships only 1 realy damage free.

Turn 6: Klingons win Initiative

I attempt to pull back to reload all Photons. Using Phasers I manage to kill the last D5 which explodes next to the D6 that Connie beat up last turn. The D6 took some damage. The Klingons took out Kearsarge for my trouble.

Federation disengaged conceding the game to the Klingons escaping with only the Repulse and the Constitution.

Fun game, but I have to say there are mechanics issues with Photon hit probabilities and overloads. The Federation is already hindered by having to reload. But then cannot really disengage enough to ensure the opprotunity to reload. I fire Photons at point blank last night several times and even with 50% chance at under 7.5 inches (because hits on only 5-6 above 7.5") was only getting about 25% hits. Although, there were a couple of cases where the combination of photons and phaser did enormous damage. Will have to play Feds a couple more times and see if I can work out some playable tactics. Over all it was a close game. There were several times when both sides thought the game tetered to their opponent.

 

[billclo]

If you can, you might try the All Power to Engines special order to get clear of the furball so you can reload the following turn. Worth a try at least.

 

[tneva82]

Fun game, but I have to say there are mechanics issues with Photon hit probabilities and overloads. The Federation is already hindered by having to reload. But then cannot really disengage enough to ensure the opprotunity to reload. I fire Photons at point blank last night several times and even with 50% chance at under 7.5 inches (because hits on only 5-6 above 7.5") was only getting about 25% hits. Although, there were a couple of cases where the combination of photons and phaser did enormous damage. Will have to play Feds a couple more times and see if I can work out some playable tactics. Over all it was a close game. There were several times when both sides thought the game tetered to their opponent.

Howabout ignore whole get in close and overload thingie?

Remember: Whether you are in your face range or 15" you bypass shields on 6's. With multihit 4 and devastating...

If you are at half the range the extra hits just go to shields. However every shield by passing photon hits straight to the internals and can cause critical hits to boot.

By opening fire at max range you aren't sacrificing any efficiency of shield penetrating photon's and have more easy time maintaining fire arcs. And get to use those photon's lot sooner than waiting for the "perfect" chance to unleash them.

Unleash veritable storm of photon's at 15" range and watch the klingon curse how useless his extra strong forward shield is when half the hits bypass it

 

[Lincolnlog]

tneva82,

The only problem with the 15" shot is you are reduced to 33% chance to hit. I know if I get in close, it only increases my chances 16-17%. But I would rather hit with 2 photons than one. I did some long range sniping with Photons in the above game and never hit with more than one in any combat over 7.5" (remember you are -1 one to hit at over half your weapons range). I never got better than 3 hits at under 7.5".

Billco,

Thought about using all power to engines, after measuring the 4 extra inches wouldn't have done me any good, perhaps in another game under different circumstances.

 

[tneva82]

tneva82,

The only problem with the 15" shot is you are reduced to 33% chance to hit. I know if I get in close, it only increases my chances 16-17%. But I would rather hit with 2 photons than one. I did some long range sniping with Photons in the above game and never hit with more than one in any combat over 7.5" (remember you are -1 one to hit at over half your weapons range). I never got better than 3 hits at under 7.5".

But as I said number of shield penetrating photon's stays precisely the same.

Doesn't matter whether you shoot at 15" or 7.5", you still get 1 out of 6 straight past the shields.

And those are real killers. You could cripple enemy ship with those well before shields get worn down. And thanks to that prevent damage to your fleet.

ALSO if you start firing as soon as possible and don't fret about getting into up close range(where extra hits are just less important shield hits) you are more likely to be able to fire every chance possible. If you get close then you could find nobody in your fire arc. Especially vs the super maneuverable klingons. This means that by firing from further you could get MORE shield penetrating hits than at close range.

This is particularly good vs klingons who a) can outmanouver you(getting those overcharged close range photons is going to require some blunders from villain) b) have the extra strong frontal shield so those extra hits are going to be even less effective than vs other races.

By firing from further you a) reduce maneuverability(christ this is tough word to spell. Japan words pale in comparison ) issue b) ignore the front shield boost c) cause damage to the hull and critical hits sooner which potentially can save your ships from damage or help finish the ship off faster.

 

[mcoyote]

tneva82,

The only problem with the 15" shot is you are reduced to 33% chance to hit. I know if I get in close, it only increases my chances 16-17%. But I would rather hit with 2 photons than one. I did some long range sniping with Photons in the above game and never hit with more than one in any combat over 7.5" (remember you are -1 one to hit at over half your weapons range). I never got better than 3 hits at under 7.5".

Billco,

Thought about using all power to engines, after measuring the 4 extra inches wouldn't have done me any good, perhaps in another game under different circumstances.

Good points. FWIW, photons have the fixed 4x multihit, which is a bit better than phasers at full range.

Related question, I guess: My interpretation of shield-penetration on sixes is a "natural" six, as opposed to an accuracy-boosted one, meaning (conversely) a natural six when you're >1/2 max range would also be a structure hit (I get this assumption from D20-style games), unless your cumulative deductions make even a six useless.

If that's so, I'm down with the so-so range on photons, but if a rolled six suddenly becomes a five at >1/2 max range it's kind-of a bummer.

 

[Captain Jonah]

Pluses and minuses don't affect a natural 6.

-1 means you hit on a 5+ rather than a 4+, natural 6 still goes through the shield.

 

[Da Boss]

Thats correct you only bypass shields on a natural roll of a 6

 

[Captain Jonah]

Also as has been talked about in another topic.

A fleet dumps 24 photons on someone. 4 of those will be natural 6s which is 16 damage to internals. Thats two crits and two bulkheads.

Throw in some phasers and that is anything smaller than a BCH crippled in one salvo with its shields still up.

Pick on something nice like that D7C and laugh as it is reduced to a defenceless wreck moving at 6" with most of its over powered front shield still there. Remember damage cannot be repaired, once crippled it is useless and you can mop it up later.

Also keep something small or two somethings small and agile back for overloads to chase off those annoying Klinks who love getting on your back side.

Also also as has been mentioned before, spread out a bit against Klinks, the more widely spread your fleet sub groups are the more chance you have of finding a nice weak rear shield in arc.

Also also also wait till scouts arrive and buy one or two, love them, protect them and delight in the fun that is Fed photon rerolls :twisted:

 

[Lincolnlog]

Also as has been talked about in another topic.

A fleet dumps 24 photons on someone. 4 of those will be natural 6s which is 16 damage to internals. Thats two crits and two bulkheads.

Throw in some phasers and that is anything smaller than a BCH crippled in one salvo with its shields still up.

Pick on something nice like that D7C and laugh as it is reduced to a defenceless wreck moving at 6" with most of its over powered front shield still there. Remember damage cannot be repaired, once crippled it is useless and you can mop it up later.

Also keep something small or two somethings small and agile back for overloads to chase off those annoying Klinks who love getting on your back side.

Also also as has been mentioned before, spread out a bit against Klinks, the more widely spread your fleet sub groups are the more chance you have of finding a nice weak rear shield in arc.

Also also also wait till scouts arrive and buy one or two, love them, protect them and delight in the fun that is Fed photon rerolls :twisted:

Yes the issue of Scouts came up after the game on Saturday. The Feds would have lost 4 Photon Torpedoes but would have ganed more hits with the remaining Photons. :twisted:

So, I agree having a Scout on board can make a huge difference.

We're having a very similar discussion about weapons power on the Fed Comm board:

Okay a Fed Fleet can fire 24 Photons at once, but if you are over 7.5" you only have a 33% chance to hit (lets call it 8 photons hit). One or two of those might statistcally be criticals. Yes you have devasting +1, but both of those have a 1/6th chance of being bulkheads and doing no damage at all, 66% probability they will simply be hull damage. Lets say 1 becomes a critical, at level 2 you not seriously harmed any given ship, and remeber they can attempt to repair 1 level at the end of the turn.

Okay, now we fire all 24 at under 7.5 inches, unlikely, but lets run with it. You now only have a 50% chance to hit. Lets call it 12 hits out of 24. Once again some will be 6's, chances are with 6 6's still only one will be a critical if any. Just as good a chance that one will be a bulkhead.

In the 2 games I have played I have never witnessed 3 successful blow throughs from a single game turn by photons. Maybe my group is just terrible at rolling dice (thats a completely different discussion).

No take the Klingons, 24 Disruptors that begin firing at 24" with a 50% probability, and a 66% probability at 12" or less. They can overload every turn. Even without the Devastating +1 they are rolling just as many criticals as the Federation. But, because of the increase hits and hit probablities coupled with ships that are extremely nimble, a fair Klingon player is going to knock Fed shields down, keep the Feds reacting instead of going back on the offensive.

Photons were always an extremely close range weapon. Fly down the enemies throat and blast them when you can't miss. Take down their shields and finish them off with Phasers. :wink:

And I do remember this is not Star Fleet Battles. But, the Photons are not balanced. I don't want anyone to rush out and fix this, not saying that. But I do want more time to play with it and see if I can develop tactics that work. My Klingon tactics work quite well.

 

[gord314]

Lincolnlog, from your example it looks like you are forgetting multihit 4 on the photon torpedoes. You fire 24 at over half range, hit with 8. Since you are only hitting on 5s and 6s, half of these rolled 5s and the other half rolled 6s. The 4 that rolled 6s then get 16 rolls on the damage table so you have 2.66 bulkhead hits and 2.66 devastating +1 crits. This will cripple most ships in one round of shooting, regardless of defensive fire.

As a side note, I have played about a dozen games as the federation with sizes ranging from 200 to 1320 points against Klingons and Romulans and from my experiance the federation doesn't win with photon torpedoes, it wins with Kirov Battlecruisers.

 

[Lincolnlog]

Lincolnlog, from your example it looks like you are forgetting multihit 4 on the photon torpedoes. You fire 24 at over half range, hit with 8. Since you are only hitting on 5s and 6s, half of these rolled 5s and the other half rolled 6s. The 4 that rolled 6s then get 16 rolls on the damage table so you have 2.66 bulkhead hits and 2.66 devastating +1 crits. This will cripple most ships in one round of shooting, regardless of defensive fire.

As a side note, I have played about a dozen games as the federation with sizes ranging from 200 to 1320 points against Klingons and Romulans and from my experiance the federation doesn't win with photon torpedoes, it wins with Kirov Battlecruisers.

gord314,

Okay, wait a sec. We have obviously been rolling for criticals incorrectly. Each damage point of blow through rolls on the damage table or each hit. We've been playing each hit. Thats what is not figuring up here.

Bob

 

[GalagaGalaxian]

Well, I just played a game with someone who wanted to try the game and had a F-FFG take a long range torp shot with its two torps. One missed, but the other scored a penetrating hit and inflicted two criticals, both to impulse, the unfortunate D6 struck was nearly crippled as the torpedo blew apart it's deck house (10 damage total), had the damage control teams not gotten lucky and rolled a 6 escalation might've made that a lot worse (another D6 damage).

Obviously that was a pretty lucky shot, but hey, I'm not a logical Vulcan, sometimes you gotta buck the odds and go for the small chances.

 

[tneva82]

Well, I just played a game with someone who wanted to try the game and had a F-FFG take a long range torp shot with its two torps. One missed, but the other scored a penetrating hit and inflicted two criticals, both to impulse, the unfortunate D6 struck was nearly crippled as the torpedo blew apart it's deck house (10 damage total), had the damage control teams not gotten lucky and rolled a 6 escalation might've made that a lot worse (another D6 damage).

Obviously that was a pretty lucky shot, but hey, I'm not a logical Vulcan, sometimes you gotta buck the odds and go for the small chances.

And that was one ship. Imagine almost entire fleet firing which amounts to "bit" more than two photons

At that point crippling your target isn't lucky anymore!

 

[GalagaGalaxian]

Well, more torps just makes that one lucky shot more likely. Thats the nastiest photon we've seen yet after a half-dozen + games with the Flat-tops.