For When Your Type P Corsair Just Isn't P Enough

[Terry Mixon]

The docking space is from the original Corsair, so blame Mingoose. The ship they designed uses it that way (and in High Guard 2022), so all I did was do the same. Personally, I agree but this is bumping their design up to the next level.

I’m out and about so I can’t answer much else for now, but am reading.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

My take on a light, cheap trader would be something like this:


100 Dt, J-2 & M-2 at 100 Dt, J-1 & M-1 at 200 Dt, MCr 20 (plus software) in quantity.

A 70 Dt central payload bay with a bridge and single cramped stateroom at the front and drive pods to the sides, something like a miniature Subbie.

The payload bay is 30 Dt modular for e.g. crew and passenger staterooms (or perhaps a cutter module), 10 Dt fuel/cargo section, and 30 Dt cargo. Additional fuel in Demountable tanks reduce cargo capacity.

An additional three 1 Dt modules can be loaded with e.g. better sensors, docking clamps, or Fuel Purif/Collapsible tanks.

Two drop tanks mounts for up to two 20 Dt external tanks.

Up to 100 Dt external cargo, optionally covered by a jump net (requires a 1 Dt module).


Standard modules include a 10 Dt habitation module with 2 staterooms and 2 Dt common area.


It can be operated by a single crew member and a lot of automation, or perhaps a full crew of three and a habitation module.

Standard configurations can be:
100 Dt with 20 Dt fuel, a hab module and 40 Dt cargo at J-2.
200 Dt with 20 Dt external fuel, 60 Dt external load in clamps, and 50 Dt internal cargo at J-1.

 

[Sigtrygg]

No, of course not, but they can be modular so you can quickly and cheaply retrofit them if you want them.



On a J-1 main you carry external cargo, so you become a virtual 200 Dt ship, carrying more cargo for more profits.

When you want to leave the mains you carry more fuel or less external cargo, as befits the situation, because versatility.

So you pay for the clamps, how do you carry additional cargo where the clamps were? Do you add the clamps and remove them when needed, for free? Who stores them, for free?
Where do the trade rules give availability of externally mounted cargo pods?

 

[Condottiere]

In theory, you could make clamps modular, or, perhaps, more precisely, attach them to something that is modular.

You could also have the external cargo have a clamp.

 

[Arkathan]

So you pay for the clamps, how do you carry additional cargo where the clamps were? Do you add the clamps and remove them when needed, for free? Who stores them, for free?
Where do the trade rules give availability of externally mounted cargo pods?

Since High Guard provides the option for externally mounted cargo at a cost of 1,000 Cr per dTon of Cargo, with no ship's tonnage taken, there is an assumption that standard cargo containers, like the ones freight bundles are placed in, are indeed a thing. Not only a thing but cheap and ubiquitous.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Since High Guard provides the option for externally mounted cargo at a cost of 1,000 Cr per dTon of Cargo, with no ship's tonnage taken, there is an assumption that standard cargo containers, like the ones freight bundles are placed in, are indeed a thing. Not only a thing but cheap and ubiquitous.

I’ve designed a whole line of external cargo, fuel, low berth, and passenger pods as they make financial sense. I have a 200-ton merchant tender that can haul 360 tons of pods. It’s cheaper than the same capacity in an internal configuration. The ubiquitous utility pods in orbit can have them off and put new ones on in record time, too.

 

[Arkathan]

Here's my attempt at a cheap target.

Edit: Adding external cargo reduces the stats to Jump 1 and Maneuver 1

 

[Terry Mixon]

Here's my attempt at a cheap target.
View attachment 3590

Does it account for the extra capacity in external cargo in the drives? They seem to be the default tonnage. I’m not home, so just asking.

 

[Arkathan]

Does it account for the extra capacity in external cargo in the drives? They seem to be the default tonnage. I’m not home, so just asking.

Without External Cargo, it has J2/M2. With External Cargo it is J1/M1. Probably should have put that in the Narrative.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

So you pay for the clamps, how do you carry additional cargo where the clamps were? Do you add the clamps and remove them when needed, for free? Who stores them, for free?

Who said anything about free? A clamp for a 30 Dt pod is 1 Dt, fits in a small module.

Where do the trade rules give availability of externally mounted cargo pods?

Why would we need special rules for external pods? It's just regular cargo space in a regular hulls carried in clamps, just like small craft.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Here's my attempt at a cheap target.
View attachment 3590
Edit: Adding external cargo reduces the stats to Jump 1 and Maneuver 1

I’ll have to look at why mine is MCr 10 more expensive.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Does it account for the extra capacity in external cargo in the drives? They seem to be the default tonnage. I’m not home, so just asking.

The J-drive is 10 Dt = 5 Dt + 2.5% of 200 Dt or 2 × 2.5% of 100 Dt.
The M-drive is 2 Dt = 1% of 200 Dt or 2 × 1% of 100 Dt.

J-1 & M-1 at 200 Dt and J-2 & M-2 at 100 Dt.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I’ll have to look at why mine is MCr 10 more expensive.

Budget Hull,
Budget drives,
Budget sensors,
No turret.

 

[ottarrus]

To the OP:
I have an entirely different set of problems with the whole Type P concept.
- Why have a specific hull design for 'pirate' ships? Logically a raiding ship of 400 tons would be either a Type R Subsidized Merchant or a Type T Patrol Ship.
- The whole 'swallow a ship whole' thing is straight out of a James Bond film [The Spy Who Loved Me, 1976] and has about that much actual utility. And there aren't that many 100 ton ships worth capturing anyway.

A proper pirate ship has the same look and electronic signature of a normal ship transiting the spaceways. A Type R subbie is best because even gunned up with 4 turrets nobody feels threatened by them. Possibly two power plants, definitely a larger sub-craft [maybe a 30 ton ship's boat], definitely room for marines /prize crews. Definitely a brig cell for 1 or 2 high value hostages, the rest in low berths. Excellent sensors. And 50+ tons of cargo space.
Performance doesn't have to be super-duper. Jump 2 and Maneuver 3 ought to do it. Larger Power Plant to power the lasers.

And these design ideas work out just as well as a Q-ship too.

 

[AndrewW]

- Why have a specific hull design for 'pirate' ships? Logically a raiding ship of 400 tons would be either a Type R Subsidized Merchant or a Type T Patrol Ship.
- The whole 'swallow a ship whole' thing is straight out of a James Bond film [The Spy Who Loved Me, 1976] and has about that much actual utility. And there aren't that many 100 ton ships worth capturing anyway.

They did that in You Only Live Twice (1967).

 

[swordtart]

Who said anything about free? A clamp for a 30 Dt pod is 1 Dt, fits in a small module.


Why would we need special rules for external pods? It's just regular cargo space in a regular hulls carried in clamps, just like small craft.

I had a modified seeker that carries 5 small clamps. It can carry 5 piggybacked launches. There were 3 staterooms and 27 tons cargo on the mothership. The plan was for the ship to jump in with launches attached, they would detach and make their own way to the various spaceports in the system to conduct trade while the main ship refuelled at the starport. Everyone would meet up in orbit, recombine and jump again. Depending on the configuration of the launch you could get up to 97 tons cargo in a "100 ton" ship.

If you were willing to travel freight class you could doss down in your own launch and not have to share a stateroom, though some launch configurations had barracks, cabin space or small staterooms allowing independent traders to hitch a lift and the carrier can act as a jump ferry.

Since the tagalongs only need to travel to the planet you could go the route of the automated lifeboat in the small ships book and do away with a bridge entirely and rely on virtual crew. With only a weeks fuel required you could have over 18 tons of cargo per parasite craft or 118 tons all up.

But I tend to agree a module is space-worthy, it just isn't mobile. I don't see the difference between a completely stripped out Launch and a purpose built 20 ton empty hull. A ship with cargo modules attached to clamps loses any streamlining it has making landings more challenging and this is disadvantage enough.

The problem with standard modules is 3 x 30 tons modules saves 2 tons of clamps, but also means you "waste" 10 tons of capacity. Optimally there would be 4 x 25 tons cargo modules, but then you are very much into non-standard modules and hull configurations.

 

[Vormaerin]

The addition of fuel/cargo containers ought make a major impact on ship design. As would 2300 style external cargo pods. One of the biggest problems for J2/3/4 merchant ships is the wasted space on fuel when not making the maximum jump distance.

Demountable fuel tanks and drop tanks have problems that might keep them out of general application (though I think those would get ironed out) but fuel/cargo containers are almost certainly worth installing in place of fuel tanks for all fuel beyond J1 unless the ship is genuinely expected to always make its maximum jump. The 5% surcharge on the extra fuel space will be paid for in spades any time the ship makes a shorter jump.

The clamp issue depends on whether you think cargo pods need power to maintain life gravity/life support and whether or not said clamps can provide it. This is addressed in 2300, but not afaik in Traveller. But with this addressed, external cargo pods are another way to make higher base jump ships more cost effective in the mercantile business.

 

[swordtart]

The clamp issue depends on whether you think cargo pods need power to maintain life gravity/life support and whether or not said clamps can provide it. This is addressed in 2300, but not afaik in Traveller. But with this addressed, external cargo pods are another way to make higher base jump ships more cost effective in the mercantile business.

I am inclined to assume that clamps can provide a power tap to clamped ships, but it needn't be relevant. Cargo doesn't necessarily need gravity or life support and any special cargo that needs any of those things could have custom cargo pods with them fitted for when they are detached.

I was tending to assume that clamps are around the airlock/access hatches to allow access by crew to the vessel when attached. Space walking to your clamped on fighters in the middle of a space battle sounds unlikely. While attached you can use the airlock/hatch to provide parasitic life support.

 

[Arkathan]

One 30 ton clamp costs five times as much as 100 tons of external cargo mount racks, and the racks eat no tonnage.

 

[swordtart]

One 30 ton clamp costs five times as much as 100 tons of external cargo mount racks, and the racks eat no tonnage

These do make landing more difficult and of course can only be for cargo whereas with a clamp you can swap cargo pods for a ship.

The ability to selectively jettison however might mean that you can decoy off a pirate by leaving a few cargo containers in your wake (and an evil genius could put something nasty in those containers)

There are also Jump Nets of course which seem both more expensive, less efficient and also chavvy as anything.