Finesse build + Parry

[baojin]

Hey all,

I'm trying to figure out how to do a good mix between a Finesse build (say like a Zindaran fencer) and a parry build for a lvl 4 NPC.

I'm thinking about going soldier (for the feats) but i didn't really look at Pirate yet...

The problem that i see with Finesse + Parry is that you waste a lot of feats in fact to be just, say, equivalent to a STR based char with a shield.

Like u'll need a dex of 18 and cha of 18 + intricate swordplay along with the prerequisites to have the same parry / atk bonus than a char with just STR 18 and a large shield.

Same goes with Damage, a Zingarian with 18 DEX and lvl 4 soldier will have a +10 (with weapon focus) to touch with her broadsword for a 1d10 + 2 (with specialization) damage and potentially 1d10+6 with the fencer's finesse (assuming u got enough feats).

On the other hand a Zingarian with 18 in STR will have the same +10 to touch but will have +6 (or 7 i forgot) Armor pen, which will ignore most armors. + The char can have power attack, cleave, no prisonner, probably some stuff to enhance AP...

Is there a way to balance out these 2 situations ? Or is there something that would give the edge to a finesse fighter in this kind of situation (like balance difference ?) ? Or maybe i am completely overlooking something ?

Also, it's not stated, but i guess it's obvious that u can't fence with a shield ?

 

[Phobos]

Take a look to the new equipment in Warrior´s Companion, specially, basket hilt, serrated edge and duellist cape.

 

[kintire]

Also, it's not stated, but i guess it's obvious that u can't fence with a shield ?

I don't think its obvious at all. Bear in mind that the modern one handed only featherweight sword fencing is purely sport: no serious combatant has ignored the off hand like that (even if it was empty it was used to disarm and grapple). Sword and buckler was the most popular combat fencing style for centuries. I see no reason why a fencer can't use a shield.

 

[baojin]

I don't know about these items (i don't have that book) I thought that there were almost no magical items in Conan.

And yeah i took a deep look at the intricate parry and there's no reason as why it shouldn't work with a shield.

However i did the same char with 18 in STR and combat expertise / Intricate Parry / Weapon focus & spe broadsword / one other i forgot and she has like 27 in Parry.

 

[Ichabod]

Argos and Zingara covers the Zingaran Fencing School and the Player's Guide covers the Aquilonian Fencing School. Both are broken in how they allow you to cheat feats. Both books also have finesse related feats.

But, the reality is, in terms of combat effectiveness, if you are going to finesse, you are pretty much playing a thief, as that's how you are going to get the Sneak Attack damage in order to consistently cause massive damage saves.

On the other hand, if you have a high STR, you should be using a two-handed weapon to maximize damage as killing things quickly is better than any sort of defense. And, your feats are going to go into Power Attack and Cleave and probably Fleet-Footed, for combat, and Iron Will or whatever, for those things that really hurt.

I don't know what a low level Wastrel (thief/pirate - Hyboria's Fallen) looks like, as the one I built was 10th level to match the party at the time, but it was a character who could finesse, kill, cheat Intricate Swordplay (from Zingaran Fencing School, though this was a low CHA character), and do so many other things - Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Improved Feint - that it was just painful to take a turn as the optimal play was so tactical rather than strategic. Fortunately, he died right away when the party abandoned him, so the endless combat numbercrunching could end.

This all assumes that the GM and the party haven't adapted to less effective combat styles, i.e. ones that don't consistently force MDSs.