fatigue and armor

[master of reality]

On page 63, under Movement in Armour it says,

"Walking or gentle jogging. Armour does not interfere with such movement, although it can increase the Fatigue level (see page 61)."

On page 61, however, I can't find any direct reference to fatigue caused by wearing armor. I considered how the total encumbrance value of the armor worn could affect fatigue levels. Plate armor is 3 ENC per location. Thus, a full suit of plate armor on all 7 locations has a total encumbrance value of 21. So, a character with a size of, say, 12 and a strength of 12 would not be encumbered, or "overloaded" (page 59), by this suit of armor. Does that mean that such a character would never feel fatigue while walking in a full suit of plate armor?
I've never walked in a suit of plate armor, but I'm guessing that walking for any prolonged period of time in plate armor will cause fatigue faster than not wearing it. For short distances, the effect on fatigue is probably minor and can be ignored for game purposes, but a long hike up a mountain in heavy armor is bound to be more tiring than not wearing armor.
How should I handle fatigue from walking, fighting, climbing, or other activity in armor? Any thoughts on this issue are appreciated.

 

[PhilHibbs]

Also I'd imagine that walking in plate armour would be more tiring than carrying the same weight in a backpack. The real question, though, is "is the system good enough for a game", any simple system is going to have it's odd quirks.

 

[Vagni]

I can't speak for full plate armour but wearing a mail hauberk and plate helm (in MRQII terms that's a total ENC of 9 and a -4 armour penalty) is not really very tiring unless you start running around a lot or fighting for several minutes, it does then start to tire you faster than an unarmoured man.

I once did a 5 mile 'fun run' in mail, plate helm and carrying a sword and shield. It wasn't fun at all! I was pretty much knackered at the end. I have since taken a vow to never run unless there's a dinosaur chasing me!! :lol:

Perhaps the solution is to apply the total ENC of the armour as a penalty to fatigue rolls when under medium to high activity levels. In the case of full plate this would be -21%. Another similar option is to use the armour penalty, this would be -9% for full plate. If you wanted to refine this further maybe use the armour penalty x1 for medium activity and x2 for heavy activity. This way the lighter armours have very little effect, but really heavy metal armours could well just tip you over to that next fatigue level.

I use the armour penalty option in my house rules, as it already uses something you have on you character sheet and is thus easy to check and apply.

I feel that the other option of moving the fatigue test for certain armour types results in a two tier armour system with the inevitable break point of 'your in or out', the above suggestions are a little more linear I feel.

 

[master of reality]

Perhaps the solution is to apply the total ENC of the armour as a penalty to fatigue rolls when under medium to high activity levels. In the case of full plate this would be -21%. Another similar option is to use the armour penalty, this would be -9% for full plate. If you wanted to refine this further maybe use the armour penalty x1 for medium activity and x2 for heavy activity. This way the lighter armours have very little effect, but really heavy metal armours could well just tip you over to that next fatigue level.

I use the armour penalty option in my house rules, as it already uses something you have on you character sheet and is thus easy to check and apply.

Those ideas sound pretty good. In particular, I like your use of the armor penalty since, as you say, it's already on the character sheet. Fighting and climbing are already subject to fatigue tests. So an armor penalty modifier to fatigue tests is a good idea.
As far as walking for long distances in armor, one idea that I have is to use something like the sum (since armor penalties are negative) of the character's CON and armor penalty to determine how far a character can walk in kilometers before a fatigue test is made, with a baseline distance for cases where the sum is zero or negative. So a character with a CON of 12 wearing a full suit of plate mail can walk 12 + (-9) = 3 kilometers before rolling for a fatigue test. Characters with a CON of 9 or less could walk, say, half a kilometer before making a fatigue test. I'm not ready to implement this rule yet. I'm just tossing it out there to see if perhaps someone will propose another idea that I like better.

I do find it odd that the rulebook mentions the possibility of fatigue from walking in armor and refers the reader to the section on fatigue, but then fails to mention anything about it in that section.

 

[Vagni]

As far as walking for long distances in armor, one idea that I have is to use something like the sum (since armor penalties are negative) of the character's CON and armor penalty to determine how far a character can walk in kilometers before a fatigue test is made, with a baseline distance for cases where the sum is zero or negative. So a character with a CON of 12 wearing a full suit of plate mail can walk 12 + (-9) = 3 kilometers before rolling for a fatigue test. Characters with a CON of 9 or less could walk, say, half a kilometer before making a fatigue test. I'm not ready to implement this rule yet. I'm just tossing it out there to see if perhaps someone will propose another idea that I like better.

I'll add my musings on the subject again if I may. :wink:

I can only go of my own experience of wearing armour here but based on the armour I mentioned above (mail hauberk and plate helm, that's a total ENC of 9 and a -4 armour penalty) lets see how it works out:

I would say my CON is about average, say 11 (heroic, I know!).
My armour penalty is -4 so this gives us 11 -4 = 7 km before requiring a fatigue roll.

The movement tables assume you can walk about 67.2 km per 12 hour stretch.
Now 67.2 / 7 = 10 (rounded up) tests per 12 hours. That seems a lot of Athletics tests for a 12 hour walk even in fairly light armour. If my Athletics skill were about 50% or so I'd average failing five tests and be Debilitated almost every time! (this is not even allowing for the increasing difficulty of each test!).

I would suggest using at least CON+STR less the armour penalty perhaps. If my STR were 11 this would mean 22 -4 = 18 km before my first fatigue test. That's 4 tests for a full 12 hour march. With a 50% Athletics I should arrive maybe Tired or Winded.

I reckon that seems more realistic. Personally I'd also probably consider 50km per day a very decent rate in armour as well.

I do find it odd that the rulebook mentions the possibility of fatigue from walking in armor and refers the reader to the section on fatigue, but then fails to mention anything about it in that section.

I think the reference to fatigue and armour in the movement section probably refers to the encumbrance rules in general, as armour adds to the ENC of anything you carry and so could actually push you in to the 'overloaded' category (if carrying total ENC over STR+SIZ) where you are at -20% to all physical actions and your move rate is halved.

I think it's been left deliberately vague as many players prefer to gloss over fatigue at the best of times let alone apply it to movement over distances.

Still, this post does give people some options on working out house rules if they feel they need them!

*UPDATE* Forgot to say that the above examples are based on the MAXIMUM move over a 12 hour period, effectively a force march. A more realistic movement per day would be around 30km over 10 hours as suggested in the Strategic Time Travel table!

 

[master of reality]

As far as walking for long distances in armor, one idea that I have is to use something like the sum (since armor penalties are negative) of the character's CON and armor penalty to determine how far a character can walk in kilometers before a fatigue test is made, with a baseline distance for cases where the sum is zero or negative. So a character with a CON of 12 wearing a full suit of plate mail can walk 12 + (-9) = 3 kilometers before rolling for a fatigue test. Characters with a CON of 9 or less could walk, say, half a kilometer before making a fatigue test. I'm not ready to implement this rule yet. I'm just tossing it out there to see if perhaps someone will propose another idea that I like better.

I'll add my musings on the subject again if I may. :wink:

I can only go of my own experience of wearing armour here but based on the armour I mentioned above (mail hauberk and plate helm, that's a total ENC of 9 and a -4 armour penalty) lets see how it works out:

I would say my CON is about average, say 11 (heroic, I know!).
My armour penalty is -4 so this gives us 11 -4 = 7 km before requiring a fatigue roll.

The movement tables assume you can walk about 67.2 km per 12 hour stretch.
Now 67.2 / 7 = 10 (rounded up) tests per 12 hours. That seems a lot of Athletics tests for a 12 hour walk even in fairly light armour. If my Athletics skill were about 50% or so I'd average failing five tests and be Debilitated almost every time! (this is not even allowing for the increasing difficulty of each test!).

I would suggest using at least CON+STR less the armour penalty perhaps. If my STR were 11 this would mean 22 -4 = 18 km before my first fatigue test. That's 4 tests for a full 12 hour march. With a 50% Athletics I should arrive maybe Tired or Winded.

I reckon that seems more realistic. Personally I'd also probably consider 50km per day a very decent rate in armour as well.


*UPDATE* Forgot to say that the above examples are based on the MAXIMUM move over a 12 hour period, effectively a force march. A more realistic movement per day would be around 30km over 10 hours as suggested in the Strategic Time Travel table!

Thanks Vagni for the feedback. I hadn't really thought my game mechanic idea through because I was hoping someone, such as yourself, who has actually walked in armor for prolonged periods of time, would do it for me. Your ideas sound reasonable. I'll probably adopt them.

 

[Vagni]

Your welcome, you've helped me iron out my house rule on the matter too. I'd pretty much adopted the armour penalty on fatigue rolls idea but not really thought out the implications on marching and walking any distance in armour.

*UPDATE*
Just had another thought for armour and fatigue: the armour penalty could be deducted from the characters CON to determine how many minutes or CA's they take to become tired rather than knocking it off the Athletics roll (Core Rules p.61). That way players in heavy armour risk becoming tired quicker than an un-armoured character.