Fate Points for a Healing Surge?

[flatscan]

So, I'm tempted to include a house rule in my campaign inspired by D&D 4e. Specifically inspired by Healing Surges since healing is only done with skills and the occasional herbal remedy. I'm thinking of having it work as follows:

Spend a Fate Point and a move action to recover a single roll of your character's Hit Die type + Con mod in HP. This can be performed once per game session at this cost. If you wish to use it again in a single session it will cost 2 Fate Points.

I'm thinking of calling this house rule, "Laughing in Death's Face" or something appropriate. Thoughts? Opinions? Criticisms? Name suggestions? All are welcome.

 

[David St-Michel]

I, personally, would not incorporate this in my own game.

I appreciate the whole aspect of "you need to stop and heal, or rest to regain HP". Or the excessively rare goblet of golden wine.

If not, it just becomes AD&D where fighters gulp down healing potions like it was cranberry juice.

Perhaps an alchemist could create them a simple to ingest mixture of herbs that would taste like three-day old crap but make it so like someone gave them aid, as per the Heal skill?

 

[flatscan]

Heh, I appreciate that some won't want to use it in their game and I'm not suggesting that you should. This is meant to be used in the middle of combat like Healing Surges are used in D&D 4e. For instance, in most of my games the characters are in the teens or single digits of HP when fighting the big bad. For me, it's more exciting that the PCs push themselves (with the help of Fate) to win rather than get taken out at the climax. YMMV.

As to the alchemist remedy you're suggesting I've already introduced that in game, but it's fairly difficult to come by. I generally allow a PC to only have one available per adventure, and it's never used in the heat of battle.

Now, do you have any thoughts on the mechanical aspect of this house rule (that's really what I was asking for opinions on, not whether you would use it or not :wink: )?

 

[Majestic7]

We use hero points in our house ruled Acheronian Edition. They are separate from Fate Points. Usually each character has one hero point per game session. It can be used to gain a reroll, ignore Terror of the Unknown, gain immediately +5 to Dodge & Parry for one round... and heal an amount of hit points equal to the Constitution score.

Usually players only use their hero points for rerolls. I think spending a FP for healing would be too expensive - unless you use Foreshadowing RAW from 2nd Edition or otherwise shower the players with fate points.

 

[flatscan]

Fate Points are a bit more common in my game as yes, we use the Foreshadowing rules. Also, I award FP for bringing food and beer to the game as well as submitting character journals on Obsidian Portal.

Interesting take with the Hero Points. They get a guaranteed value as opposed to a chance they could min out. But your players don't use that option often?

 

[David St-Michel]

Ah. Gotcha.

Well then... A Fate Point is a pretty steep cost for that kind of effect, IMHO. Perhaps it should give them a bit more HP?

Unless, as stated earlier, Fate Points are sprinkled freely over their character sheets.

 

[flatscan]

As noted above, there are other ways for PCs to get Fate Points in my game. Basically, the bribery of food and beer for Fate Points means I'm good on both for a weekend. :wink:

But even if it weren't, I don't see the cost as too high, especially compared to spending a Fate Point for Left for Dead, resisting Terror, or a simple reroll.

 

[Supplement Four]

Here's a post I made a year and some months ago discussing different healing options a GM might want to add to his game.

You might find some inspiration here.

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Well, I've added a little bit of healing to the game with these rules, and I believe the rules still keep the gritty and dangerous feel of Conan.



First off, a PC can use a Fate Point to gain immediate hit points. This I call the Second Wind option. Spending a Fate Point nets the character a number of hit point equal to one day's rest, that is: 3 + 1 per level + CON modifier, to a minimum of 1.



Next, the masterwork Healer's Kit can be used to gain the healer +2 on the Heal check and +2 recovery hit points when the check is successful.

So, after a fight, the Heal skill can be used for Short Term Care. This requires a DC 15 Heal check, but if successful, returns a number of hit points equal to the injured character's level + his CON modifier, to a minimum of 1. Using a master Healer's Kit on this check will boost recovered hit point by 2.

Masterwork Healer's Kits are expensive (100+ sp) and provide 5 uses (instead of 10 uses common with the standard Healer's Kit).



Third, this new feat as been added to the game. The feat's prerequisite is at least one rank in the Heal skill. The feat, Healing Hands, allows the healer to make educated guesses about treatment options, attempting different healing techniques that may or may not be successful.

In order to use the feat, the healer takes a negative modifer on his Heal check, but if successful, he provides bonus recovery hit points equal to the modifier. The modifier cannot be larger than the number of ranks the healer has in the Heal skill (mechanics are similar to the Power Attack feat).




Examples...

A 3rd level Soldier character has a +2 CON bonus and 25 hit points.

Second Wind: As long as the character has 1 hit point, he can use a Fate Point to return 8 hit points. He cannot use this method to boost his hit point total above 25.

Short Term Care: As per normal game rules, a wounded character can be attended by a healer once after each combat. This is a DC 15 Heal check by another character with the Heal skill. Success brings the Soldier 5 hit points.

Masterwork Healer's Kit: If a masterwork Healer's Kit is used with the Short Term Care option above, the healer gets a +2 bonus on the Heal check, and if successful, the Soldier recovers 7 hit points.

Healing Hands: Use of this feat depends on the number of ranks the healer has in his Heal skill. A healer with two ranks in his Heal skill would have two options of using this feat.

If providing Short Term Care, the healer can take a -1 penalty on his Heal check, but if successful, he would return to the Soldier 6 hit points.

Or, the healer can take a -2 penalty on his Heal check, providing the Soldier with 7 hit points if successful.

Using a masterwork Healer's Kit would improve these recovery options to 8 and 9 hit points respectively.

Once the healer put more ranks in the Heal skill, more options on using the Healing Hands feat would be available to him.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Hey, SF, that some pretty neat rules writing. I dont suppose youd be free to do the new ed of MRQ? They could use a hand. (See appropriate threads for details).

 

[flatscan]

Supplement Four, I remember reading this waaaay back when. What I'm concerned about with your take on 'Second Wind' is that a PC with more than a single Fate Point could just keep pumping out the Fate Points to get himself considerably more HP. I know you have it capped at 25, but still, that's a ton of HP for the exchange. In play how often do your players use this ability? I'm also not keen on the amount of HP you give your PCs for the Fate Point (but I imagine FPs in your game are rarer than they are in mine so in that light I'm sure it is an appropriate amount for your game). As much as a day of rest is an awful lot. The number just seems too high to me when the Heal skill only does 1 per level + Con mod. I want to increase the chance of a PC surviving but not at the sake of making things too easy, if that makes any sense. But thanks for reposting that info, I'd forgotten about your take on this idea and it does help me define what my goals and parameters are.

 

[Supplement Four]

Hey, SF, that some pretty neat rules writing. I dont suppose youd be free to do the new ed of MRQ? They could use a hand. (See appropriate threads for details).

LOL. Thanks man.

Hey Prince, earlier, you read me as saying that "As much as I hate to side with Prince..." I wanted to point out that you read that wrong. I wasn't saying that I hate to side with you at all--I was saying that I hate to post when I know I'm not as learned in the subject as I should be.

 

[Supplement Four]

In play how often do your players use this ability? I'm also not keen on the amount of HP you give your PCs for the Fate Point (but I imagine FPs in your game are rarer than they are in mine so in that light I'm sure it is an appropriate amount for your game).

Not very often at all. And, that's mainly because I"m pretty stingy with Fate Points, so, they're precious, and my players tend to keep them for last ditch efforts to keep their characters alive.

BTW, the cap is not 25 hit points. You may have read that wrong. All I was pointing out was that a character cannot use this method to boost his hit points over his maximum. Thus, the 3rd level Soldier in the example had 25 hit points--so he couldn't use a Fate Point to boost his HP over his max.

In my game, someone could certainly blow his Fate Points on boosting his HP up, but he'd do that about one time, and one time only....because he'd run out of Fate Points and not have any more for any other reason.

If a player wants to blow all his Fate Points that way, I'm game. He'd better hope to Crom he doesn't need to be Left For Dead later, though.

I find that keeping Fate Points rare keeps them both prized and selfishly used--and not very often, at that.

If, in your game, Fate Points are more plentiful, then you may consider some GM ruling on the use of Fate Points in this manner...like once per fight, one per game sessions, equal to the number of CON bonus, whatever.

As much as a day of rest is an awful lot. The number just seems too high to me when the Heal skill only does 1 per level + Con mod.

Again, Fate Points are very rare in my game. So spending one for a day's rest is about right.

Plus, Conan's game is so deadly, I don't feel bad allowing the players to keep their characters alive in this manner.

 

[Strom]

I like your idea flatscan - I'm sure it would work and keep the action rolling. But a more Conanesque move would be to have the PC use their Fate Point to perform a heroic deed to vanquish the immediate enemy or turn the tide for a round or two. Thus you have a Conan like moment while still wounded - perhaps near death - making the moment even more memorable. Plus, as a PC you feel the loss of the Fate Point more since you are still in danger HP wise. Make the PC explain how he is going to use that precious Fate Point. Fate Points are excellent to inject the superhuman, heroic moments Conan is famous for at just the right time. Hanging near death is kinda status quo some adventures!

Need to have the adventurer keep fighting? I allow strong drink as a momentary +5 hit points if they are not at zero. After that it is up to the gods.

Anything to keep the story going and the action rolling!

 

[Supplement Four]

Strom makes me think of something that happens in Age of Conan. When a person rolls a fatality attack, he gets a surge of stamina (not health) that lasts for a few seconds. Also, by chain killing, one after the other, there's a bonus to stamina (and...maybe health, too...I haven't looked at either of these that closely in the game...they just happen automatically).

Something like this may be what happens in D&D 4E. I don't know as I've stayed clear away from that game.

But, I like what Strom says about a "Conan moment". Someone, near death, pulling off the heroic impossible.

What if, on a Critical Hit, the attacker gets a boost to his hit points? Chalk this up to adrenaline or something.

If that's too often for you (it's not for me), then maybe do it on a hit that kills an opponent with massive damage.

I like the Critical Hit bonus, though. Not only do you do extra damage, but you gain hit points too. Since Conan is a deadly rpg, and there are no healing potions or clerics around to heal your adventuring butt, I like the idea a lot.

You could give a standard set of hit point recovery, say the equivalent of a successful Heal check or a full day's rest. Or, you could tie it to the amount of damage given. Make it equal to the amount of damage...or half that amount...or quarter that amount...I dunno. Needs some thought.

But, you get the idea.

I like it.

 

[flatscan]

Hmm, interesting thoughts Strom and S4! I do want the PCs to be able to hang in the tough fights so the regaining of HP is essential. However, I do agree that it can dilute the experience if they know they've always got that to hang onto. Perhaps the HP boost from the FP expenditure should only give temporary HP that fade after the combat. So if the PCs are struggling, they put everything they've got into the fight, but could well fall over dying afterwards. Perhaps a number of rounds after determined by their Con score.

 

[flatscan]

Ok, here's how I'm thinking this house rule is gonna go.

1 Fate Point + Move equivalent action = 1 Hit Die roll + Con mod of TEMPORARY Hit Points that expire a # of rounds equal to your Con score.

to use this ability again in the same adventure (not session) will cost 2 Fate Points and again after that will cost 3.

The Move equivalent action means your PC needs to make the decision to do this before he's knocked unconscious. If he's knocked out, too bad, he's out and needs to be healed normally.

Hit Points gained in this manner are temporary, so they will be subtracted from your adjusted HP total first, before your normal HP are. Ideally the fight will be over before the number of rounds (that you as a player will need to keep track of) equal to your Con score (not Mod) passes.

The flavor of this is that you're down to the wire, your PC knows he'll likely fall in combat, but he uses the adrenaline rush of battle to keep fighting, taking as many dogs screaming to hell as he can. But when the adrenaline runs out, he's back down to being as chipped around the edges as before.

Make sense? Any thoughts on a better name for this ability?

 

[Majestic7]

How about just granting the benefits of Diehard feat with one FP for the duration of combat - in other words, that the character may fight till -10 HP instead of dropping at 0. It would be far easier mechanic to handle.

If the character already has Diehard, he could get some other benefit instead. Like being able to fight till -20 before dropping (even though after -9 he is a dead man, he just doesn't realise it yet.)

 

[zozotroll]

I do use a healing mechanism, but it is tied to action points, something I have not heard anyone else use here.

 

[Supplement Four]

Perhaps the HP boost from the FP expenditure should only give temporary HP that fade after the combat.

That's an interesting thought. You can tie it closly to an adrenaline rush that way.

Hmm...marry this idea to what Strom and I said...

You'll end up with some temporary hit points when you roll a critical hit that fade off after the fight is over (if they're not consumed in the fight).

I'm starting to really like it.

 

[flatscan]

Well, that leaves things to much to chance and the PCs could end up receiving the temp HP when they don't need it and might not get it when they really, really do. I think it's an idea worth merit though, just not fitting for my specific needs.

As to Action Points, Majestic7 uses a similar point system, I believe. I like to keep them as Fate Points so there's not 2 pools of points to keep track of. Just makes things easier for me and mine. YMMV.

Finally, to the idea proposed about having it work like the Die Hard feat, some of the PCs in my game indeed have this feat already. I don't want to extend it past -10 because at that point, your PC is dead. Also, the limitation of the Die Hard feat are pretty severe with any action meaning the instant loss of an HP as I recall. Sure the system I proposed adds some complexity, but I don't think it's too much. PCs can just keep track of the amount of rounds they can have the temp HP and the die roll means it's not a guaranteed thing that the PC will have a wide margin of buffer HP. I think making them temp HP solves my original concern of losing the threat of death but still gives the PC a buffer to keep on fighting, or flee for their lives for that matter.

Gonna give it a test run starting with Saturday's session and see how it plays.