FAP breakdowns in the new edition

[Greg Smith]

[Edited to reflect the correct breakdown, as per the Fleet book}

One of the questions that keep getting asked is how FAPs breakdown in the 2nd edition:

1 FAP buys:
2 ships one priority level lower
4 ships two priority levels lower
8 ships three priority levels lower
12 ships four priority levels lower
18 ships five priority levels lower

Ship is one level higher - 2 FAPs
Ship is two levels higher - 4 FAPs
Ship is three levels higher - 8 FAPs
Ship is four levels higher - 12 FAPs
Ship is five levels higher - 18 FAPs

You can split any FAP into two ships of a PL lower, and split one of these down further.

Some races have ships that you get two of for a patrol point. So in a 5-point raid level game you could get 40 twofers (Tethys, Haven, Sho'kos).

 

[Blu_Majik]

two sho'kos for the price of one!

need to buy more now, that's good marketing.

 

[Greg Smith]

Well you do get two in a pack.

 

[Celisasu]

Twofers: For all your initiative sink needs. :lol:

 

[lastbesthope]

You can split any FAP into two ships of a PL lower, and split one of these down further.

It doesn't state it explicitly in the rules, but you culdn't you use a War point to buy 4 Raid ships, and then split one of those Raid points down, either into 2 Skirmish or 4 Patrol??

I know tha's how it would have worked in Armageddon with the splits detailed by Greg above.

LBH

 

[Greg Smith]

It doesn't state it explicitly in the rules, but you culdn't you use a War point to buy 4 Raid ships, and then split one of those Raid points down, either into 2 Skirmish or 4 Patrol??

I know tha's how it would have worked in Armageddon with the splits detailed by Greg above.

LBH

Matt ruled you could mix and match the FAP table and split rule, with Armageddon. So I don't see what not.

I don't think you could split a war into 4 raid and then split one raid into 4 patrol. You could take one of those raid points and split it into 2 skirmish, or 1 skirmish & 2 patrol.

Although now you don't get the freebie extra ship by splitting 2 FAPs down using the split rule.

The Fleet book should have a table of all the possible combinations.

 

[Triggy]

So in a 5-point raid level game you could get 40 twofers (Tethys, Haven, Sho'kos).

And that statement scares me more than anything else about 2nd ed. (everything else other than the FAP splits I consider to be mostly right and fun in 2nd ed.)

I know we're going to see at least one fleet of this sort at the next tourney and wouldn't be surprised to see others leaning heavily on this crutch. (I even made a variety of suggestions on how to reduce the effectiveness of 2-for-1 ships in larger games under the older, less generous FAP splits.)

 

[Greg Smith]

And that statement scares me more than anything else about 2nd ed. (everything else other than the FAP splits I consider to be mostly right and fun in 2nd ed.)

I agree completely. (Assuming they change the White Stars back in the Fleet Book).

 

[Celisasu]

It'll be like a fighter swarm made of ships rather than fighters. :lol:

 

[Methos5000]

And that statement scares me more than anything else about 2nd ed. (everything else other than the FAP splits I consider to be mostly right and fun in 2nd ed.)

I agree completely. (Assuming they change the White Stars back in the Fleet Book).

What change was made to the Whitestars? (other then the one is a scout the other carries a figther thing)

 

[Burger]

And that statement scares me more than anything else about 2nd ed. (everything else other than the FAP splits I consider to be mostly right and fun in 2nd ed.)

I agree completely. (Assuming they change the White Stars back in the Fleet Book).

Indeedy, I made sure to report this as extremely unbalanced and I know the US 2nd tier playtest group did as well. It looks as though we were ignored... wonder how much of our feedback was actually acted upon!

 

[katadder]

take you 40 ships. then face a Gaim fleet in the tourney (which i expect alot of) or 20 bluestars or even the abbai swarm. the 40 ships die as soon as get looked at most the time and are limited on weapons options (ranges, slow loading etc) for the most part.

last mongoose tourney you were limited to 8 ships per game apart from final anyway. and would like to see the 40 try to take an adira or drakh mothership.

 

[Tolwyn]

Mhm, Myrmidon or Thetys swarm tactics would become more powerfull. Or dozens of fighter flights :?

Does not look like a good solution. It seems taking small ships is a very good tactic in 2nd Ed :?:

 

[Greg Smith]

The only good thing about it is it eliminates the loophole of being able to get a free patrol ship from every two raid points you swap down.

 

[MustEatBrains]

The way I see it, that might be a loophole, but it won´t affect my own games - I sure as hell won´t exploit it, and neither will any of the guys I usually play with (well, maybe once or twice just to try it out, but not regularly). It´s hard to say anything about it without having read the actual rules and/or have seen them on the table, anyway.

Of course, it thing were as extreme as you say, that could pose a problem at tournaments, but like I said, hard to tell without the actual rules at hand

 

[Burger]

Assuming the same splitting down rule applies as Armageddon, here is the breakdown table:


SKIRMISH
2x Patrol

RAID
2x Skirmish
1x Skirmish, 2x Patrol
4x Patrol

BATTLE
2x Raid
1x Raid, 2x Skirmish
1x Raid, 1x Skirmish, 2x Patrol
1x Raid, 4x Patrol
4x Skirmish
3x Skirmish, 2x Patrol
6x Patrol

WAR
2x Battle
1x Battle, 2x Raid
1x Battle, 1x Raid, 2x Skirmish
1x Battle, 1x Raid, 1x Skirmish, 2x Patrol
1x Battle, 1x Raid, 4x Patrol
1x Battle, 4x Skirmish
1x Battle, 3x Skirmish, 2x Patrol
1x Battle, 6x Patrol
4x Raid
3x Raid, 2x Skirmish
3x Raid, 1x Skirmish, 2x Patrol
3x Raid, 4x Patrol
6x Skirmish
5x Skirmish, 2x Patrol
12x Patrol

ARMAGEDDON
2x War
1x War, 2x Battle
1x War, 1x Battle, 2x Raid
1x War, 1x Battle, 1x Raid, 2x Skirmish
1x War, 1x Battle, 1x Raid, 1x Skirmish, 2x Patrol
1x War, 1x Battle, 1x Raid, 4x Patrol
1x War, 1x Battle, 4x Skirmish
1x War, 1x Battle, 3x Skirmish, 2x Patrol
1x War, 1x Battle, 6x Patrol
1x War, 4x Raid
1x War, 3x Raid, 2x Skirmish
1x War, 3x Raid, 1x Skirmish, 2x Patrol
1x War, 3x Raid, 4x Patrol
1x War, 6x Skirmish
1x War, 5x Skirmish, 2x Patrol
1x War, 12x Patrol
4x Battle
3x Battle, 2x Raid
3x Battle, 1x Raid, 2x Skirmish
3x Battle, 1x Raid, 1x Skirmish, 2x Patrol
3x Battle, 1x Raid, 4x Patrol
3x Battle, 4x Skirmish
3x Battle, 3x Skirmish, 2x Patrol
3x Battle, 6x Patrol
6x Raid
5x Raid, 2x Skirmish
5x Raid, 1x Skirmish, 2x Patrol
5x Raid, 4x Patrol
12x Skirmish
11x Skirmish, 2x Patrol
18x Patrol

 

[MustEatBrains]

BATTLE
1x Raid, 4x Patrol

I thought you could only splice a point into two ships of the next lower level (and further from there on), not directly into ships of the overnext lower one?

 

[Triggy]

take you 40 ships. then face a Gaim fleet in the tourney (which i expect alot of) or 20 bluestars or even the abbai swarm. the 40 ships die as soon as get looked at most the time and are limited on weapons options (ranges, slow loading etc) for the most part.

last mongoose tourney you were limited to 8 ships per game apart from final anyway. and would like to see the 40 try to take an adira or drakh mothership.

The trouble is, even the Blue Stars may not get to shoot very much at all as the 40 ship fleet uses its initiative sinks to stay out of range then hammers home with its four large squadrons at the end of the move.

Either way, suggesting that the only real way to be the ultimate swarm is with another swarm is not exactly encouraging...

Even the Gaim have problems as they lose ships faster than they can release the fighters to get them their kills. It really isn't a pretty sight 40 ships and given the 30 ship swarms were reported by several people as the new big worry, I don't know what happened.

 

[Burger]

BATTLE
1x Raid, 4x Patrol

I thought you could only splice a point into two ships of the next lower level (and further from there on), not directly into ships of the overnext lower one?

You could split like that in Armageddon. I've bumped the thread in Rulesmasters, asking if the same applies to 2e.

 

[Ripple]

There just seems to be a slant in the core group that you don't have to protect against extreme uses of the rules. I was only able to throw a few verbal comments into the Chicago groups review of 2nd ed...damn a bad tooth and a trip to Aussie...but many of our comments seem to have been met with a 'your over-reacting' type response.

That may be entirely right in some ins tances but in the case of the great heaps of initiative sinks it most definately is not. And vs some races its virtual instant death. How can the Drazi compete vs races that can buy two for one initiative sinks at patrol? Buy the super breaching pod? Maybe stock up heavily on darkhawks?

The lack of acknowledgement that swarms are an issue (both Triggy and Davesaint have ridden swarms to victory in competetive tourneys) was one of the big disappointments in 2 ed for me.

Ripple