Fantasy Traveller
- Thread starter Jame Rowe
- Start date
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
My idea was something akin to the Wheel of Time books, although my idea pre-dated the books.
There are 5 sources of magic: Earth, Air, Fire, Water and Life. The basic "elements" of the universe.
People can have affinities to one or more of those Elements (probably based on your Magic Charactersistic).
Basic spells are possible within each Element, but the real power comes with a Mages ability to combine elements.
Thus a Geomancer (Earth Mage) could use a crystal ball to observe things far away. An Aquamancer would use a bowl of water and achieve the same results.
BUT, mixing Earth and Air gives the Mage the ability to See and Hear what is going on there.
Healing is under the Life Element, but curing dehydration would require Life and Water elements.
There would be very little set spells and more manipulation of forces to achieve the desired result.
Mixing these Elements with the various Laws of Magic is how a Mage achieve a particular result.
Just my random thoughts...
There are 5 sources of magic: Earth, Air, Fire, Water and Life. The basic "elements" of the universe.
People can have affinities to one or more of those Elements (probably based on your Magic Charactersistic).
Basic spells are possible within each Element, but the real power comes with a Mages ability to combine elements.
Thus a Geomancer (Earth Mage) could use a crystal ball to observe things far away. An Aquamancer would use a bowl of water and achieve the same results.
BUT, mixing Earth and Air gives the Mage the ability to See and Hear what is going on there.
Healing is under the Life Element, but curing dehydration would require Life and Water elements.
There would be very little set spells and more manipulation of forces to achieve the desired result.
Mixing these Elements with the various Laws of Magic is how a Mage achieve a particular result.
Just my random thoughts...
Jame Rowe said:
I'd better come to my senses now before I promise something I can't deliver.
Realistically, I know I won't have the time commitment to do this justice. I just think of the effort Flynn is putting out, and realize I can't match that. Jame should be able to easily verify that I've not had the time or energy to continue the "prototype" Wanderer play-by-post game we had started months and months ago.
But that's no problem: I think Fantasy Traveller doesn't need my stuff... as someone else posted, most of the requirements for "low" fantasy are already there; all FT needs is primarily careers, "aliens", and magic. Setting might be nice, but frankly can be cannibalized from any of the myriads of games already out there. Other elements, like shipbuilding and the like, can be brought in as supplements.
In other words, small, quick victories are effective motivators. Big projects are draining.
I think this would be a lot of fun. It's something that I've pondered ever since I discovered the LBB reprints last fall.
My very first game wasn't in the Traveller setting and was pseudo-fantasy where a crackpot used nanotechnology to transform humans into all of the typical fantasy races.
My very first game wasn't in the Traveller setting and was pseudo-fantasy where a crackpot used nanotechnology to transform humans into all of the typical fantasy races.
rje said:
Well, maybe you could give us the stuff you have already and we could burn it up.
...
Did I say "up?" I meant "in." :twisted: Especially since it seems you had a campaign. That would certainly be a very welcome addition to Fantasy Traveller.
I have a couple careers for it already, and could do a couple more (merchant, army, mariner, noble and rogue). All tht would be needed would be adaptation to the MGT rules and a "life events" path.
Although personally I'd as soon see a system that at least does life events by year instead of term (even if you only get one or two skill levels by term).
Jame Rowe said:
Sticking to the SRD requires doing careers their way, is that right? If so, I wouldn't fret over it: it makes your job easier.
Keep It Simple, Sir Jame!
Magic seems to be the tricky part. The temptation to make it Big will be strong. Don't give in to the Dark Side, or else you'll never finish. Trust me.
Golan2072
Cosmic Mongoose
You could do almost whatever you want with the SRD, including doing chargen in whatever way you want. Only the TLL has a few minor limitations (as long as you steer clear of the OTU, that is, which is pretty easy to do in a fantasy game). However,you might want to make your system as compatible with Traveller as possible so that someone playing FT would be able to borrow stuff from Traveller sourcebooks and someone playing Traveller would be able to easily adapt FT to portraying low-tech worlds in his Traveller universe (or use the magic system to enhance psionics).rje said:
Also, the SRD has quite a lot of useful rules that you could use ready-made, reducing your workload.
There are two main metagame concerns regarding magic in most fantasy systems:
1) Preventing magic for being over-powerful (like D&D at high levels), making non-mages significantly less useful in-game, or, the other side of the coin, limiting mages too much (like D&D at low levels), making them far less useful in-game. However, if you're designing a mage-centric game, over-powerful magic would be completely acceptable (if not desirable); and if you're planning on making magic a relatively minor feature of characters who usually aren't specialized mages (the way Traveller psionics work), limited magic would probably be OK.
2) Preventing it from being too complicated, or, worse, too well-defined. magic should be something that a player could use intuitively to achieve cool effects. Over-organizing it into neat little well-defined packages (like D&D 3.xE tends to do) usually reduces the fun involved.
---
So, what kind of a fantasy game do you have in mind? Low-magic medieval (or ancient-world), steampunk/fantasy, high-magic or something else? The general tone of the implied setting usually influences the rules selected.
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
Goetry as magic system for Wanderer.
Goetry is the magical art of making supernatural beings or entities do the heavy lifting. All magical effects are the result of direct action by such a being. All such forces need to be summoned, and summoning becomes harder as the beings become more powerful, capable and intelligent. For purposes of this game, any such summonable beings is called a Numina, (plural Numinae).
Res Numinae
Three main classes of numina are spirits, shades and demons.
Spirits are elemental forces, seldom sentient, and the weakest of the three. They are the easiest to summon and to bind. They embody pure attributes, and as such are represented as having only a single caster-specified characteristic. Typically, they are nearly invisible (by virtue of being extremely small) and immobile. The main advantage of spirits is that a caster can use the characteristic rating of the spirit in lieu of his own; or can expend it to restore lost points. Note that a spirit that is reduced to 0 is automatically dispelled, regardless of nature or type of binding.
Shades are the souls of the dead, animals or human. They have rating of 1 in each physical characteristic, with an additional (Effect?) points added to one caster-specified characteristic. They appear as washed out, almost invisible almost insubstantial versions of their living forms. They may interact directly with the world based on their STR move based on their Dex, communicate based on their Intelligence and provide information based on their education. Note that these are in fact the ghosts of the once living; they have access to any information they would have had when living; however, remember that they will typically have a very hard time communicating if they have an increased EDU (Int =1) or moving quickly if given enhanced STR (DEX=1);
Demons are the strongest Numina that can be summoned. They are normally autonomous and self motivated, and are often quite intelligent. are able to manifest in any form the caster specifies, and may be corporeal or incorporeal at will, essentially being able to act as a shade or a physical creature. Once manifested, the form is permanent until the Demon departs, although corporeality is still flexible. When summoned, a demons Characteristics are determined by the effect; the effect determines the number of dice rolled to determine the value of one caster-specified characteristic, and half the same number of dice are rolled for each other characteristic. All characteristics have a minimum value of 2, except INT which is 7.
All Numina are described by a UAP, The Universal Arcane Profile…
Res Serviens
Once summoned, a numina must be either bound to service, tasked or imbued into a physical object or being.
Tasking is the simplest use of numina: it requires a skill roll (more later) once the numina is summoned. If successful one service or use is carried out, and the Numina departs. In general, failure at tasking has lesser consequences (details to be determined).
Binding is essentially enslaving a numina; as with tasking, a skill roll is required (details to come); success makes the Numina an obedient slave of the summoner; duration is variable but definite. If immobile, the Numina is assumed to be colocated with the caster –in short, it moves with him at all times. Longer periods of service increase difficulty. Overall duration should be a function of the effect and an increment chosen by the caster, which directly modifies difficulty.
Note that failure in the binding attempt is fairly serious, and leaves an irked and annoyed, independent Numina in our physical world.
Imbuing is imprisoning a numina in a physical vessel, or in game terms, making stuff, crafting magic items, etc. This can be living or non-living, but if nonliving it must be of great (and expensive quality, and will not survive the numina’s departure; a living vessel is harder to imbue, but will survive, and has no constraints as to cost. Once imbued, a numina cannot leave the vessel until the binding expires or is broken, and is at the service of whoever possesses the vessel. Two durations of imbuing are possible – temporary or permanent. Temporary imbuing allows the wielder to use the effects or powers of the numina for a set number of times –to be based on effect and chosen difficulty. After that, the numina is gone, and the vessel may or may not survive. Permanent imbuing is the mightiest of magic, and is essentially creating powerful and legendary magical artifacts. More later.
Res Magica Ars
The details of how these are turned into spell effects are very much up to the caster and the GM. However, a few basic guidelines are suggested.
Function
In general, when a Numina interacts with the physical world, it does so as an actual physical being of that type. In metagame terms, one is creating a character.
Physique
Numina have a distinct form which gives them reach, height and etc; shades appear as they did at some point in their life, and have similar physical abilities, limited by their summoned characteristics: thus, a shade may have wings, but unless Dex is enhanced, will fly very very slowly, and would be limited as to what may be carried by the Str characteristic.
Physicality
Numina, too are limited by the constraints of the physical world, although these may be pushed much further than “normal” beings are able to. For example, a shade has a height and a reach – to recover a lost item (for example) a shade would be able to pick it up and return it to the specified character if it was on the floor, but not if it was in the clutches of an eagle in flight –unless, the shade was that of an eagle, or anything actually capable of flight when alive. A demon, could simply fly after the Eagle, if it manifested with wings; and either would have to fight the eagle for possession in any case.
Corporeality
Numina cannot simply pass thru physical objects; however, a shade (or a demon) is only semi-corporeal, and would be able to slip thru the tiniest of cracks or openings- treat them as having the characteristics of a fine smoke.
Visibility
All numina must be to some extent visible –although they can be very hard to see: hazy, indistinct or very very small (the latter is generally how spirits manifest.
Soon to come: some actual game mechanics !
Goetry is the magical art of making supernatural beings or entities do the heavy lifting. All magical effects are the result of direct action by such a being. All such forces need to be summoned, and summoning becomes harder as the beings become more powerful, capable and intelligent. For purposes of this game, any such summonable beings is called a Numina, (plural Numinae).
Res Numinae
Three main classes of numina are spirits, shades and demons.
Spirits are elemental forces, seldom sentient, and the weakest of the three. They are the easiest to summon and to bind. They embody pure attributes, and as such are represented as having only a single caster-specified characteristic. Typically, they are nearly invisible (by virtue of being extremely small) and immobile. The main advantage of spirits is that a caster can use the characteristic rating of the spirit in lieu of his own; or can expend it to restore lost points. Note that a spirit that is reduced to 0 is automatically dispelled, regardless of nature or type of binding.
Shades are the souls of the dead, animals or human. They have rating of 1 in each physical characteristic, with an additional (Effect?) points added to one caster-specified characteristic. They appear as washed out, almost invisible almost insubstantial versions of their living forms. They may interact directly with the world based on their STR move based on their Dex, communicate based on their Intelligence and provide information based on their education. Note that these are in fact the ghosts of the once living; they have access to any information they would have had when living; however, remember that they will typically have a very hard time communicating if they have an increased EDU (Int =1) or moving quickly if given enhanced STR (DEX=1);
Demons are the strongest Numina that can be summoned. They are normally autonomous and self motivated, and are often quite intelligent. are able to manifest in any form the caster specifies, and may be corporeal or incorporeal at will, essentially being able to act as a shade or a physical creature. Once manifested, the form is permanent until the Demon departs, although corporeality is still flexible. When summoned, a demons Characteristics are determined by the effect; the effect determines the number of dice rolled to determine the value of one caster-specified characteristic, and half the same number of dice are rolled for each other characteristic. All characteristics have a minimum value of 2, except INT which is 7.
All Numina are described by a UAP, The Universal Arcane Profile…
Res Serviens
Once summoned, a numina must be either bound to service, tasked or imbued into a physical object or being.
Tasking is the simplest use of numina: it requires a skill roll (more later) once the numina is summoned. If successful one service or use is carried out, and the Numina departs. In general, failure at tasking has lesser consequences (details to be determined).
Binding is essentially enslaving a numina; as with tasking, a skill roll is required (details to come); success makes the Numina an obedient slave of the summoner; duration is variable but definite. If immobile, the Numina is assumed to be colocated with the caster –in short, it moves with him at all times. Longer periods of service increase difficulty. Overall duration should be a function of the effect and an increment chosen by the caster, which directly modifies difficulty.
Note that failure in the binding attempt is fairly serious, and leaves an irked and annoyed, independent Numina in our physical world.
Imbuing is imprisoning a numina in a physical vessel, or in game terms, making stuff, crafting magic items, etc. This can be living or non-living, but if nonliving it must be of great (and expensive quality, and will not survive the numina’s departure; a living vessel is harder to imbue, but will survive, and has no constraints as to cost. Once imbued, a numina cannot leave the vessel until the binding expires or is broken, and is at the service of whoever possesses the vessel. Two durations of imbuing are possible – temporary or permanent. Temporary imbuing allows the wielder to use the effects or powers of the numina for a set number of times –to be based on effect and chosen difficulty. After that, the numina is gone, and the vessel may or may not survive. Permanent imbuing is the mightiest of magic, and is essentially creating powerful and legendary magical artifacts. More later.
Res Magica Ars
The details of how these are turned into spell effects are very much up to the caster and the GM. However, a few basic guidelines are suggested.
Function
In general, when a Numina interacts with the physical world, it does so as an actual physical being of that type. In metagame terms, one is creating a character.
Physique
Numina have a distinct form which gives them reach, height and etc; shades appear as they did at some point in their life, and have similar physical abilities, limited by their summoned characteristics: thus, a shade may have wings, but unless Dex is enhanced, will fly very very slowly, and would be limited as to what may be carried by the Str characteristic.
Physicality
Numina, too are limited by the constraints of the physical world, although these may be pushed much further than “normal” beings are able to. For example, a shade has a height and a reach – to recover a lost item (for example) a shade would be able to pick it up and return it to the specified character if it was on the floor, but not if it was in the clutches of an eagle in flight –unless, the shade was that of an eagle, or anything actually capable of flight when alive. A demon, could simply fly after the Eagle, if it manifested with wings; and either would have to fight the eagle for possession in any case.
Corporeality
Numina cannot simply pass thru physical objects; however, a shade (or a demon) is only semi-corporeal, and would be able to slip thru the tiniest of cracks or openings- treat them as having the characteristics of a fine smoke.
Visibility
All numina must be to some extent visible –although they can be very hard to see: hazy, indistinct or very very small (the latter is generally how spirits manifest.
Soon to come: some actual game mechanics !
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
Eisenmann said:
I'm not sure I understand what you are asking - probably me, I'm kinda dense.....
captainjack23 said:
Just throwin' it out there, captainjack.
I'm thinking that from a game design perspective it might be easier to decide how magic impacts the game mechanically and then work on how it works in-game.
Working it "backwards" like that ensures that hooks are in place and something happens while the story of how it works in the setting can be worked out.
So far I'm going on the theory that spells and summoning act as anything else (I have a skill for each: spellcasting and conjuring), and have a difficulty based on which spell you're casting or which spirit type you're summoning. Keep in mind that I haven't assigned actual difficulties to them yet.
TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
The magic system I would like to see modelled is that of Ars Magica. The 5 techniques (Rego, Intellego, Muto, Perdo, Creo), and the 10 Forms (Animal, Herbam, Terram, Auram, Aquam, Ignem, Mentem, Corpus, Imagonem, Vim) could all be listed as skills on career charts.
You would simply divide all the values down by five (to get straight levels of Magnitude), but the essential system could work the same.
You would simply divide all the values down by five (to get straight levels of Magnitude), but the essential system could work the same.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
OR, you could just take the existing Psionic rules, expand the powers a bit (Empathic Healing etc) and you are set with a low magic setting that is ready to go, you just need a map!
I know Jame has produced an expanded list of Psionic powers that fit a "magical" setting very well.
THEN, your magical setting could be tied into a SciFi setting very easily (world isolated during a Long Night event, Lost Colony, etc).
Keeping it as Psionic based would also allow you to have these "magical" characters in a standard SciFi (SciFantasy) setting.
Literature abounds with examples of primitives being swept aboard a space ship and discovering that their little world is part of some vast galactic empire...
I know Jame has produced an expanded list of Psionic powers that fit a "magical" setting very well.
THEN, your magical setting could be tied into a SciFi setting very easily (world isolated during a Long Night event, Lost Colony, etc).
Keeping it as Psionic based would also allow you to have these "magical" characters in a standard SciFi (SciFantasy) setting.
Literature abounds with examples of primitives being swept aboard a space ship and discovering that their little world is part of some vast galactic empire...
Reading captainjack23's ideas reminded me of Rick Cook's "Wizardry" series.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Cook) where a Silicon Valley computer hacker is transported to a fantasy type world where magic works by such logic that his programming skills soon make him a powerful wizard.
The first two books are available online at the Baen Free Library: http://www.baen.com/library/rcook.htm
I'm not sure it has the tone that seems to be developing here, perhaps a touch too light-hearted, but it had a number of the elements mentioned and might be worth a look.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Cook) where a Silicon Valley computer hacker is transported to a fantasy type world where magic works by such logic that his programming skills soon make him a powerful wizard.
The first two books are available online at the Baen Free Library: http://www.baen.com/library/rcook.htm
I'm not sure it has the tone that seems to be developing here, perhaps a touch too light-hearted, but it had a number of the elements mentioned and might be worth a look.
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
rgd said:
So, what I should probably make sure I say here is that my only goal was to think about how a magic system might look if it was based on what the people in our real past -in this case classical times-would look like. Its an old project that got put into traveller context in a discussion on COTI some time ago. That said, I like most of the ideas presented here - they mainly differ based on what kind of a campaign is envisioned....which is as it should be really, rather than shoehorning a given model (usually D&D) into any setting.
Traveller, and by extension MGT has been pretty good about not needing system shoehorning, despite the vast body of OTU information. Hopefully a fantasy version can work the same way.
I'd suggest that if we can use the basic traveller tools,( the task roll, the skill system, the career path )we can likely represent any idea about magic using the common ground of the same system that is used to do everything from fighting to ship building to talking to academic research.
My 2 Cr, worth what ya paid for em, too.
captainjack23 said:
I understand. Then I'd second Eisenmann's opinion:
Use the basic Traveller tools, like you said, and decide how "magic" affects characters, objects, and events in Fantasy Traveller. I think you might want to allow for High and Low Magic variants also. (I get the idea that the magic type you're trying to recreate (historically 'accurate') is of the Low Magic (really low) variety. But I'd think the rules for Traveller magic would want to encompass a range of varieties from your historical near-charlatainism (sp?) to a magic that achieves effects similar to what psionics does currently, to a magic that is sufficiently advanced beyond TL15 that even hardy Travellers would be amazed.
Whether it's powered by "demons under contract", vast energy fields tapped by a special organ, or whatever, I think is secondary (and should allow Refs or OGL-developers to come up with their own style).
But, like you said - that's just my opinion. Worth CrImp 0.02 and deflating fast...
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
rgd said:captainjack23 said:I understand. Then I'd second Eisenmann's opinion:
Use the basic Traveller tools, like you said, and decide how "magic" affects characters, objects, and events in Fantasy Traveller. I think you might want to allow for High and Low Magic variants also. (I get the idea that the magic type you're trying to recreate (historically 'accurate') is of the Low Magic (really low) variety. But I'd think the rules for Traveller magic would want to encompass a range of varieties from your historical near-charlatainism (sp?) to a magic that achieves effects similar to what psionics does currently, to a magic that is sufficiently advanced beyond TL15 that even hardy Travellers would be amazed.
Whether it's powered by "demons under contract", vast energy fields tapped by a special organ, or whatever, I think is secondary (and should allow Refs or OGL-developers to come up with their own style).
But, like you said - that's just my opinion. Worth CrImp 0.02 and deflating fast...
Interestingly enough, that is sort of where this started, now that I think it back. I think, after I looked at the period sources for spells (the real documents left to us by the purported magi) was something like this - which seems to be an effect based definition.
Spells: do stuff the mage can't.
Curses: hurt or otherwise inconvienience over distance and or time.
Healing: Make it better beyond what normal medical skills can do.
Magic items: enhanced normal items, generally static spells.
So, next step, to fit in the goetic/historical idea to meet those goals:
Spells: Magic works by making an invisible slave do it. If an invisible slave can't do it, it doesn't work.
Curses: need a bit of the target to simulate an attack, in which case it is ranged combat; OR an attack by invisible slave in which case its melee.
Healing: an invisible slave can be the medic; or natural ingredients are combined so as to be magically effective (the magii is the medic); or its just a reversed curse thingie. (long distance healing).
Magic items: subtype of invisible slave made static; or natural elements are combined so as to be magically effective.
The posting about Goetry and etc is the end result of all of this - but I'm glad the issue came up -it does help to define the system before the fluff is added.
