Excel Ship Designer

[Terry Mixon]

Making a table now with what I have. Will share for additions once what I have is done. That way the format will be what I am using.

Good deal. Standing by.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I’ve got two related questions
1) have you done anything with integrating the Robot rules that are appropriate? Things like Robots lab or the various fabrication chambers in CSC and other sources? Or Robot Brains for your ships computer? Drone ships?
2) Other races specific High Guard rules? The Aslan, Droyne, Vargr, Hivers and K’Kree all have various levels of changes from just new systems like the Aslan Shrine to the hull and automation of the K’Kree.

Is there anyway we can help with this?

Oooo. Robot brains! Fabrication chambers! Drone ships!

If anyone needs me, I’ll be in my bunk.

 

[Arkathan]

I’ve got two related questions
1) have you done anything with integrating the Robot rules that are appropriate? Things like Robots lab or the various fabrication chambers in CSC and other sources? Or Robot Brains for your ships computer? Drone ships?
2) Other races specific High Guard rules? The Aslan, Droyne, Vargr, Hivers and K’Kree all have various levels of changes from just new systems like the Aslan Shrine to the hull and automation of the K’Kree.

Is there anyway we can help with this?

The only one I have an answer to is Labs/Fabrication Chambers.
Labs are included, and your players have to fill it with the specific equipment needed. Then in fluff text or deck plans, you label them appropriately. Same with fabrication chambers. Those will either be labs or professional spaces. Then pay separately for the fab(s).
I don't have the rules for the other race specific systems, and I'd have to see how alien the changes to otherwise standard systems are. For example, the weapons tab is so all over the place that adding anything new tends to break something. Like when burst lasers got added.
Simple may be easy, so the Aslan Shrine would just plug into the Optional 9B tab. Changing the stats of hull material between races, like I ran into in 2300, is a major buzz kill.

I have the Robot book, but haven't explored the ship's brain. Considering how moving things around for the Summary tab breaks everything below it, I should probably look at that sooner, rather than later.
Virtual crew is already a thing, so full automation plus virtual crew takes care of everything but the robo-brain.

 

[Arkathan]

FOR NEXT UPDATE (SOON-ISH)
I have Robot Brain interfaces on the Bridge Tab and the Robot handbook brains, along with a custom brain line entry.

 

[Terry Mixon]

FOR NEXT UPDATE (SOON-ISH)
I have Robot Brain interfaces on the Bridge Tab and the Robot handbook brains, along with a custom brain line entry.

As the robot brain could mean potentially no ship's computer, will there be a way to select no regular computer?

 

[Arkathan]

As the robot brain could mean potentially no ship's computer, will there be a way to select no regular computer?

If you can show me a rule where that is the case. Otherwise don't be a cheapskate over a 30,000 Cr comp/5.

 

[Terry Mixon]

If you can show me a rule where that is the case. Otherwise don't be a cheapskate over a 30,000 Cr comp/5.

Here is the rule. Robots' Handbook, page 103). I knew I had read it somewhere.



With an Avatar Controller, it can become the ship. This is something I had built and have used, so I had read the rules enough to know it was possible.



This advanced ship's brain (Robot Handbook, page 255) certainly implies that it can fully replace a ship's computer. Even the rule that says that "for reasons that no one can explain", a computer cannot plot astrogation as well as Bob the Space Cowboy that the rule "usually" prevents the brain from absolutely controlling the ship. That wiggle room means that it can be done.

Personally, I think the rule is ridiculous, but let's bump this up to TL-16 and make the ship's brain a conscious intelligence. Now the ship's brain can do it all and there is no need for a standalone computer.

All that said, I can live with using the Cr 30,000 computer to play Nintendo games.

 

[Arkathan]

I read it as crew replacement more than computer replacement. For example, its skill set does not include EW, Evade, Maneuver/0, or JumpX.
It can operate repair drones, just like a remote operator, only possibly better. The avatars can replace crew.
The smartest astrogator in the universe cannot control the micropulses through the hull's myriad jump nodes, and I suspect that robot doesn't have the bandwidth to do that either.
Nintendo it is!

 

[Geir]

Well, maybe not the cleanest language on my part. If it had Pilot skill and Electronics skill it could do just about everything, and it should have those, but then there's Jump... (argument ensues in background, I'm just here for the drinks). Throwing in a computer to handle the actual jump/x calculations would seem to be a thing for starships. Maybe you can get away with no computer on a spaceship, though. Or (just thinking of it now) 'partition' the robot's bandwidth into a chunk of 5 or 10 for just running straight ship basic functions. No /bis option for jump calcs though...

 

[Terry Mixon]

I read it as crew replacement more than computer replacement. For example, its skill set does not include EW, Evade, Maneuver/0, or JumpX.
It can operate repair drones, just like a remote operator, only possibly better. The avatars can replace crew.
The smartest astrogator in the universe cannot control the micropulses through the hull's myriad jump nodes, and I suspect that robot doesn't have the bandwidth to do that either.
Nintendo it is!

This seems pretty clear. It is possible to install a ship's brain in place of the ship's computer. Also, if the robotic brain must run all ship's functions, then by definition, it can run all ship's functions. Bob the Space Cowboy could review the astrogation and serve as the mandated human abord to put off the space weirdness of not having a sentient, but the ship's brain can do the work.



It can be wired all through the ship just like a ship's computer.



And the interface and drones can cover all aspects of ship operation except for the conscious being role that Bob the Space Cowboy fills.



And as TL-16 Conscious Intelligences can replace Bob the Space Cowboy, you could have a ship with no living being where the ship itself is a being. No computer required.

As I said, I can live with the computer still being there as a Nintendo console, but it doesn't have to be.

 

[Arkathan]

Ok. Blank selection added.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Well, maybe not the cleanest language on my part. If it had Pilot skill and Electronics skill it could do just about everything, and it should have those, but then there's Jump... (argument ensues in background, I'm just here for the drinks). Throwing in a computer to handle the actual jump/x calculations would seem to be a thing for starships. Maybe you can get away with no computer on a spaceship, though. Or (just thinking of it now) 'partition' the robot's bandwidth into a chunk of 5 or 10 for just running straight ship basic functions. No /bis option for jump calcs though...

Bob the Space Cowboy drops the astrogation DM to -2 and negates the lack of a sentient being causing problems. A TL-16 conscious intelligence as the ship's brain negates it all.

Admittedly, ship's brains don't have the capacity in the rules to load as much as a ship's computer. They should as there should be rules to add that capability (and cost) to make a ship's brain have as much bandwidth as a ship's computer. Since the rules don't allow that, a ship's computer is likely still needed.

@Geir, I'll admit to hacking the robots' spreadsheet and adding extra self-aware and conscious intelligence bandwidth levels so that a ship's brain could also be the computer. That made the brain as expensive as a ship's computer but allowed full ship's operation.

 

[Condottiere]

In theory, more computing power might diminish penalties.

 

[Terry Mixon]

In theory, more computing power might diminish penalties.

Aliens of Charted Space 2 says this (bolding mine):

Auto-Plotted Jumps

For unknown reasons, automated jumps are prone to an increased risk of misjump. A jump plotted by the automatic systems without the involvement of a sentient astrogator is subject to the same DM-4 as all other fully automated actions. For this reason, if just one skilled crewmember is carried it is usually an astrogator. A jump plotted in semi-automatic mode by someone without the Astrogator skill but with a basic understanding of the concepts involved suffers DM-2. It is thought that a machine will produce several apparently equal solutions to the same jump plot and cannot distinguish between them but a sentient mind somehow ‘feels’ which one is slightly better than the others. Even someone who is not a trained astrogator can do this to some extent and if one is available they can oversee the plot. Their Astrogator skill applies in this case and the DM-2 is not suffered.

Attempting to send a ship through jumpspace without people on board enormously increases the risk of misjump, for reasons unknown. In addition to the DM-4 for the autoplot, a vessel suffers an additional DM-4 if there are no conscious minds aboard. Lowberth passengers are by definition not conscious and experiments with highly intelligent but non-sentient minds have produced wildly differing results.

By their rules, it's not processing power but woo-woo power.

 

[Condottiere]

 

[Arkathan]

Well, maybe not the cleanest language on my part. If it had Pilot skill and Electronics skill it could do just about everything, and it should have those, but then there's Jump... (argument ensues in background, I'm just here for the drinks). Throwing in a computer to handle the actual jump/x calculations would seem to be a thing for starships. Maybe you can get away with no computer on a spaceship, though. Or (just thinking of it now) 'partition' the robot's bandwidth into a chunk of 5 or 10 for just running straight ship basic functions. No /bis option for jump calcs though...

Hey while you are pouring drinks, RH pg 102 and 254
Are the costs for the ship's interface exclusive or do both apply for ship construction purposes?
102: 5000Cr (or 7000Cr for haptic) per ton
254: 1MCr per 100 tons rounded up

 

[Geir]

Hey while you are pouring drinks, RH pg 102 and 254
Are the costs for the ship's interface exclusive or do both apply for ship construction purposes?
102: 5000Cr (or 7000Cr for haptic) per ton
254: 1MCr per 100 tons rounded up

Maybe I was drinking then...
They're not supposed to be additive, but they are clearly not the same. The final word doc has this same issue. I wish I kept more drafts, but didn't on this one, so I suspect things got changed but not thoroughly. The specific should have more weight than the general and there is no indication I was trying to match Hiver automation here (which is way more money). I would have to say that the intent was to build upon the existing VHB vehicle actuation system with haptics as an additional feature. I see no reason for the latter statement on p 254 making any sense. (another one for that errata). It's 5k or 7k per ton and that's all.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Maybe I was drinking then...
They're not supposed to be additive, but they are clearly not the same. The final word doc has this same issue. I wish I kept more drafts, but didn't on this one, so I suspect things got changed but not thoroughly. The specific should have more weight than the general and there is no indication I was trying to match Hiver automation here (which is way more money). I would have to say that the intent was to build upon the existing VHB vehicle actuation system with haptics as an additional feature. I see no reason for the latter statement on p 254 making any sense. (another one for that errata). It's 5k or 7k per ton and that's all.

And this would be a good point to ask how much the interface between the ship's brain and an existing computer would cost, if you decide that's the best fix. I know, it doesn't exist yet, but it should and will need an entry on the spreadsheet so the ship can use them both in tandem.

 

[tytalan]

Changing the stats of hull material between races, like I ran into in 2300, is a major buzz kill.

I don’t believe this is a case with any of the major races though the Droyne have a new hull set of hull modifier.

I don't have the rules for the other race specific systems, and I'd have to see how alien the changes to otherwise standard systems are. For example, the weapons tab is so all over the place that adding anything new tends to break something.

Solomani have new weapon mounts but there are also new ones in the companion. Traders and gunboats add a bunch of new weapons and bays.

other than the shrine and a slight change in crew numbers there’s really no problem with Aslan (the shrine is a stateroom that’s not occupied and doesn’t require life support maintenance costs).
Both the Vargr and the Zhodani don’t require any changes (except Zhodani military ship have a Counselor), Solomani in addition to the above adds VIP, Highpassage Block and Steerage Block to the quarter types as well as two new ship wide options Enhance security (2% of the ships hull) and Secure Accommodation (10% of the secured tonnage).
Hivers only change other than automation is they use command centers instead of bridges (a command center size is based on the tonnage of the ship but a bigger than bridges).

Both the Droyne and the K’Kree might need their own sheets.

The Droyne have their Auspicious hulls which cost a % of the ships tonnage. Instead of bridges they have ship hearts which are 30 tons + 1 ton per 100ton of ship displacement these can be armored for an additional 10 tons plus the have a bunch of different accommodations.

The K’Kree are worse since because their ships are basically open plans and a lot bigger (there version of a freetrader is 1200dt) they also have Operational package that replace a number of crew at a tonnage cost).

 

[Geir]

Okay, here's a totally-not-official-maybe-I can-sneak-it-in-a-future-JTAS-run sort of deal I pulled from, um, an orifice, in a side conversation:

In addition to the Haptics option:

• Dedicate 5 bandwidth of robot processing power to the "Ship's Computer Emulator" TL12, Cr100000, requires Very Advanced Brain.
• Add big giant fibre high-bandwidth cable of choice (Cr100 at the hardware store per metre - but you should need more than 2-3 metres, just don't make the robot have locomotion - ignore unless you're retrofitting or you really want to have a robot dragging a cable around on your ship)
• Run the following program on you ships computer: "Robot Input Interface" TL12, Cr100000, Bandwidth 5.

The point of it (which I needed to include in an edit (see below?) is that it will let the robot use the ship's computer to run all the ship's programs. They run on ShipOS12 and the robot runs on Postitronic7.

Sit back and make drinks (or have the robot do it).