Excel Ship Designer v2025.07.22

[Tforbes]

I'm not sure how / if it's possible to create a survey but I'm curious everybody's opinion on this "spread out rules updates" problem.

Would the solution look more like:
A - In between HG releases, there are no new rules created. if an adventure (or JTAS) writer comes up with something cool, they should just save it until the next version of HG comes out. (the same would / could apply to equipment being saved for updates of CSC)

or

B - Rules are released in a bunch of different places as they are created (like is the case currently) but a free Index is maintained indicating where they can be found. (similar to the new JTAS one that just came out)

 

[MasterGwydion]

Or

C - Rules are released in a bunch of different places as they are created and included in the appropriate rulebook everytime it gets updated.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I'm not sure how / if it's possible to create a survey but I'm curious everybody's opinion on this "spread out rules updates" problem.

Would the solution look more like:
A - In between HG releases, there are no new rules created. if an adventure (or JTAS) writer comes up with something cool, they should just save it until the next version of HG comes out. (the same would / could apply to equipment being saved for updates of CSC)

or

B - Rules are released in a bunch of different places as they are created (like is the case currently) but a free Index is maintained indicating where they can be found. (similar to the new JTAS one that just came out)

They're going to keep doing rules, but they should at least collate them and make the updated build rules available as a free download linked to your High Guard purchase until they get rolled in during the next update. They are being rolled into the next update, right @paltrysum?

 

[mavikfelna]

I like the idea that they put out an Index and then have all the core build rules assembled in a single rulebook for the non-racial stuff that is regularly updated, and then have High Guard supplements for each race that collects their special equipment and starship related rules, and have those updated updated as needed as well.
We also need a unified build rulebook and methodology for all technology. So you should be able to build anything that appears in CSC or High Guard or Robots. Fusion Fire and Steel did this in other editions and GURPS and MegaTraveller have some pretty robust build systems for doing it.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

thats a great big package of unintended consequences right there

Take a long approach to a space port through storm clouds and be refuelled before you land.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Take a long approach to a space port through storm clouds and be refuelled before you land.

I wonder why a low approach in a standard atmosphere wouldn't get the job done, too. It would be as thick as skimming an 8.

 

[Terry Mixon]

thats a great big package of unintended consequences right there

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Sigtrygg]

They're going to keep doing rules, but they should at least collate them and make the updated build rules available as a free download linked to your High Guard purchase until they get rolled in during the next update. They are being rolled into the next update, right @paltrysum?

This.
Make a High Guard: new rules annex pdf that is either a free download on the downloads part of the Mongooses site or link it to your purchase of High Guard.

But the most important thing is to make the authors read and use the rules as written before making up new stuff that does the job of something they overlooked in the rules <e.g. not noticing the HG2022 update retcons a 41 year old canon fluff piece that had previously been printed twice in Mongoose books with no change...> we all make mistakes

 

[ResslynHalvik]

Or

C - Rules are released in a bunch of different places as they are created and included in the appropriate rulebook everytime it gets updated.

And in between there is a series of notices of addenda for the book that is the master for that content, including all changes since the last published version. So, all these things that are effectively addenda to HG get published for people who bought the last version.

 

[Hardwire]

I don't think that they can or should give us a document that details every HG entry in every book. That would be stuff from 38 different books and then the likelihood that they will sell those books drop, and in the end they are a company that needs sales to remain in business. Provide a list of what is available and what book it is in sure.

 

[ResslynHalvik]

I don't think that they can or should give us a document that details every HG entry in every book. That would be stuff from 38 different books and then the likelihood that they will sell those books drop, and in the end they are a company that needs sales to remain in business. Provide a list of what is available and what book it is in sure.

I disagree. If those changes are part of HG canon, they need to be incorporated into the next version of HG. And if that is going to happen, I think they should be issued as addenda to HG rules up until the next issue is published - they are AE&O to the existing edition.
Or offer us a subscription model, like software, for key items like HG.

 

[Hardwire]

If they are updates to the current systems in the HG then sure, But new systems and components no.

And just because there is a fuel section in the HG doesn't mean that everything related to fuel has to be provided.

 

[ResslynHalvik]

I guess it depends whether we view these things as addenda to the current version of HG or a limited access preview of things to be added to the next version of HG.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I don't think that they can or should give us a document that details every HG entry in every book. That would be stuff from 38 different books and then the likelihood that they will sell those books drop, and in the end they are a company that needs sales to remain in business. Provide a list of what is available and what book it is in sure.

Well yes, they need to make money, but can you imagine any other instruction manual that instead of having all of the instructions in one place, you need to buy 38 different books just to build your item?

If, in order to build a ship, I have to spend over $600 just to own the rules which will be obsolete or incomplete in a month, that is unreasonable.

Do you guys remember when We had analog TV and cable came out? How much we all celebrated the end of commercials. The companies said no more commercials, but you have to pay a monthly subscription. Then you had to pay a subscription plus they added commercials. Then streaming came out and the companies said no more commercials but you have to pay for a more expensive, additional subscription. One for internet (which most of Us got bundled with our cable). Advance a few years and we are still paying more for streaming, but it has the same commercials as cable. So, where are we now? Now you can pay even more for something they promised us all along.

So, when it comes to trusting the intentions of companies, I have long ago been disabused of that notion.

 

[ResslynHalvik]

I'm thinking about it in comparison to the pricing models for two pieces of software that I use.

Enterprise Architect by Sparx Systems has a model of perpetual license per major version - if I buy a license at version 15 I get dot releases (both fixes and extensions) to that version included right up until they release version 16, at which point if I want further updates and support I have to buy the new version.

The other model is the ongoing subscription one such as Microsoft 365, where you keep paying forever but keep getting both major and minor version updates for as long as you keep paying.

 

[Anstett]

I guess it depends whether we view these things as addenda to the current version of HG or a limited access preview of things to be added to the next version of HG.

This sums it up very nicely.

I'm thinking about it in comparison to the pricing models for two pieces of software that I use.

Enterprise Architect by Sparx Systems has a model of perpetual license per major version - if I buy a license version 15 I get dot releases to that version included right up until they release version 16, at which point if I want further updates and support I have to buy the new version.

The other model is the ongoing subscription one such as Microsoft 365, where you keep paying forever but keep getting both major and minor version updates for as long as you keep paying.

We do not pay for corrections to a PDF.
We do pay for the new version of a PDF.

I think we should get for free/very nominal cost an index of all of the construction rules as an example. To know where in the 36+ books to look for that tweak that someone added. Annotations and links to the store would be great.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I'm thinking about it in comparison to the pricing models for two pieces of software that I use.

Enterprise Architect by Sparx Systems has a model of perpetual license per major version - if I buy a license at version 15 I get dot releases (both fixes and extensions) to that version included right up until they release version 16, at which point if I want further updates and support I have to buy the new version.

I would totally pay for this version.

The other model is the ongoing subscription one such as Microsoft 365, where you keep paying forever but keep getting both major and minor version updates for as long as you keep paying.

This version only works if Mongoose permanently keeps up a heavy production schedule, so the other method IMO would work better for Mongoose and for the players/referees.