Eternal Champion Campaign: Using all MRQ settings

[Kagan Altar]

Hello everyone.

I've been contemplating the idea of running an MRQ campaign using the concept of the Eternal Champion and Multiverse of Michael Moorcock as the base frame.

What I'd like to brainstorm with you is the possibility to use ALL the published settings of MRQ into such a campaign and particularly, how to adapt non-Moorcockian MRQ settings to the Multiverse.

One of the main things that happens when you use Moorcock's cosmology is that you have an Eternal Champion, Antagonist, Companion, Love etc for each plane of the Multiverse, for instance. In your opinion, who would be the Eternal Champion in Glorantha in the Second Age? What about Nehwon? How would you work on these worlds to make them fit Moorcock's concepts, and what type of campaign would you run yourself?

What other elements would have to be modified, added or subtracted to make each setting fit the Multiverse?

Please feel free to share any ideas or comments you might have. The goal's to share ideas on the topic, whether it'd be specific examples and propositions or more general concepts and criticism.

So... what do you think?

 

[Loz]

It's a good idea.

For the Eternal Champion to work, you usually need to have the Cosmic Struggle between Law and Chaos playing out. For Glorantha there isn't really an equivalent of Law, but there is Chaos, although it takes a very different form to that of the EC saga. There are also numerous contenders for the title of Champion in Glorantha: Arkat, Argrath, Prince Snodal... I'm sure others will throw in more.

I think the difficulty with Glorantha, though, is that its mythically a very different concept to the Multiverse. It's not a planet, for instance, but a lozenge floating in time, and with a cosmology that doesn't neatly fit the Moorcockian paradigm. Not to say you couldn't of course; you can shape any setting you like to fit any model you want - just that Glorantha's very well developed, and bending it to fit the EC would take some work.

But best of luck with the idea, and it will be fun to see what other elements others contribute!

Loz

 

[atgxtg]

Well, the EC stuff, as Loz pointed out, all have certain similar themes that run through them. Most noticably the "Champion". Much of this stuff is also fairly common mythic archetypes, along the lines of Joseph Cambells "The Hero's Jounrey". Adding similar elements to other setting would make them workable.

You can even mix and match different settings and styles and still get decent results. FOr example, I've been thinking about doing an Eternal Champion\Amber multiverse, using Zelzany7s Amberites as the Lords of Law, and equateing the Courts of Chaos to the Lords of Chaos.

THe question when adapting any non-EC setting, as my above example hopefully brings to mind, is how much you want to change a setting to make it more ECish. While the most popular EC books have the champion acting as a major force on a world during a major upheaval, not all the EC stories are so bold. A toned down EC , such as John Daker, Conrad Arflane, might be a good model for mixing EC with less compatible settings.

Just how much tweaking a setting actually needs will depend on what roles you have in mind for the PCs. If you link them to the EC, possibly with a PC as the Eternal Champion, then it will require a lot more work than just having adventueres who go from one setting to another.

 

[Kagan Altar]

I think the difficulty with Glorantha, though, is that its mythically a very different concept to the Multiverse. It's not a planet, for instance, but a lozenge floating in time, and with a cosmology that doesn't neatly fit the Moorcockian paradigm. Not to say you couldn't of course; you can shape any setting you like to fit any model you want - just that Glorantha's very well developed, and bending it to fit the EC would take some work.

Surely. Now if we reason about Glorantha, the Hero Plane, the God's Plane, and so on being part of the same Sphere in the Million Spheres, we can come up with some elements that would explain why the multiverse's balance isn't known from Gloranthans.

I think it's pretty clear that there's Chaos, but like you said, Law in Moorcockian sense isn't represented, at least as a united front (the Mostali, for instance, are very Lawful in a Stasis/Moorcock sense of the word). Also, there's no obvious Champion. So what happened?

Here's a possibility: What if Nysalor was an experiment to create a Champion that failed completely? What if Law has "given up" on Glorantha, with its Gods and Heroes left to fight off incursions of Chaos? What if all that remains to face the great divide and bring Balance to the world are the Companions of the Hero, with no hero present? What if the Companions are the PCs?

In the Second Age of Glorantha, disaster is just around the corner. What if the PCs were representing the balance to try to avoid a complete destruction of the world by the Godlearners and the EWF?

 

[Loz]

I think the difficulty with Glorantha, though, is that its mythically a very different concept to the Multiverse. It's not a planet, for instance, but a lozenge floating in time, and with a cosmology that doesn't neatly fit the Moorcockian paradigm. Not to say you couldn't of course; you can shape any setting you like to fit any model you want - just that Glorantha's very well developed, and bending it to fit the EC would take some work.

Surely. Now if we reason about Glorantha, the Hero Plane, the God's Plane, and so on being part of the same Sphere in the Million Spheres, we can come up with some elements that would explain why the multiverse's balance isn't known from Gloranthans.

I think it's pretty clear that there's Chaos, but like you said, Law in Moorcockian sense isn't represented, at least as a united front (the Mostali, for instance, are very Lawful in a Stasis/Moorcock sense of the word). Also, there's no obvious Champion. So what happened?

Here's a possibility: What if Nysalor was an experiment to create a Champion that failed completely? What if Law has "given up" on Glorantha, with its Gods and Heroes left to fight off incursions of Chaos? What if all that remains to face the great divide and bring Balance to the world are the Companions of the Hero, with no hero present? What if the Companions are the PCs?

In the Second Age of Glorantha, disaster is just around the corner. What if the PCs were representing the balance to try to avoid a complete destruction of the world by the Godlearners and the EWF?

All seems plausible to me. As Greg Stafford continually says: 'Your Glorantha Will Vary'!

 

[Kagan Altar]

All seems plausible to me. As Greg Stafford continually says: 'Your Glorantha Will Vary'!

Indeed! You have to adapt canon data to be able to fit Glorantha into a Multiverse paradigm, no doubt!

 

[Osentalka]

The ETERNAL CHAMPION in Glorantha varies in which Age you decide to play.


If you play in the 1st Age the ETERNAL CHAMPION would be Arkat IMHO.

In the 3rd Age (classic RQ, and nowadays HQ setting) it could be ARGRATH... or HARREK... ANDROGEUS is also a possibility.

But who would be the ETERNAL CHAMPION if you play in the 2nd Age?


Cheers

Osentalka

 

[indrodar]

But who would be the ETERNAL CHAMPION if you play in the 2nd Age?

One of the player characters obviously...

:lol:

 

[Kagan Altar]

Why not ALL the players, as in my idea above, where the Eternal Champion itself is absent or has been taken out or is a complete failure, and only the Companions remain as a result?

 

[Mongoose Pete]

You could play the Eternal Archetype of your choice. Moorcock had the Eternal Champion, the Eternal Enemy and the Eternal Companion. But you can have others...

Loz's long-running Hawkmoon campaign is based around a group known as the Straw Dogs, who are an incarnation of the Eternal Mercenary band. An excellent idea which could be used to transport a group of players from war to war across the multiverse, or indeed any setting you desire!

Start off fighting against Granbretan, get zapped by some nasty sorcerer-scientist machine and find themselves in a Humakti heroquest, before appearing as the German panzer group at the end of Kelly's Heroes, then be dragged into Hyboria under the leadership of a charismatic brute by the name of Conan, etc, etc... Each step trying desperately to break the effects of the sorcerer-spell before realising that they are champions, forever doomed to know no peace until Tanelorn is found...

Of course, there are plenty of other archetypes that exist, and many applicable situations where they can be used in Glorantha!

 

[Loz]

You could play the Eternal Archetype of your choice. Moorcock had the Eternal Champion, the Eternal Enemy and the Eternal Companion. But you can have others...

Loz's long-running Hawkmoon campaign is based around a group known as the Straw Dogs, who are an incarnation of the Eternal Mercenary band. An excellent idea which could be used to transport a group of players from war to war across the multiverse, or indeed any setting you desire!

Start off fighting against Granbretan, get zapped by some nasty sorcerer-scientist machine and find themselves in a Humakti heroquest, before appearing as the German panzer group at the end of Kelly's Heroes, then be dragged into Hyboria under the leadership of a charismatic brute by the name of Conan, etc, etc... Each step trying desperately to break the effects of the sorcerer-spell before realising that they are champions, forever doomed to know no peace until Tanelorn is found...

Of course, there are plenty of other archetypes that exist, and many applicable situations where they can be used in Glorantha!

...Scribbles in Straw Dogs campaign nastiness notebook...

Kelly's Heroes
Panzers
Meliadus as a Commander of the Waffen SS

:twisted:

 

[Mongoose Pete]

...Scribbles in Straw Dogs campaign nastiness notebook...

Kelly's Heroes
Panzers
Meliadus as a Commander of the Waffen SS

:twisted:

Arrrgh! That planned defense of Köln is about to be revised... :roll:

 

[Loz]

...Scribbles in Straw Dogs campaign nastiness notebook...

Kelly's Heroes
Panzers
Meliadus as a Commander of the Waffen SS

:twisted:

Arrrgh! That planned defense of Köln is about to be revised... :roll:

Steam-powered Jag Panzers with clockwork-powered elevating guns, their cowls shaped into the masks of their order.

Order of the Osprey 'stuka' ornithopters...

Reminds me of that Hawkmoon scenario I was planning yonks ago based on the plot of 'Where Eagles Dare'. Must get around to that. Hmmm - couple of Mongoose gaming days on the horizon...

 

[Krimson]

After reading White Wolf's Son, it would be very plausible that if Granbretan discovered a means to travel easily back and forth to Glorantha that they would invade. This would provide an EC or group of heroes a means to follow them there in the struggle, OR have an indigenous group rise to be Champions to repel the incursions.

If there was an Eternal Enemy as listed as above, it would certainly be some incarnation of Klosterheim. I believe that Paul "Gaynor the Damned" von Minct is referred to as the Eternal Predator, who cares not about balance and would be more concerned with the destruction of Glorantha (similar to what he did to Rose von Bek's home Universe).

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

That's a great idea.

Having a single rule set would make it very easy to move characters between different universes too.

In 3rd age Glorantha - if it was me - I'd maybe use the Orlanthi as a mild force of Moorcockian Chaos, and the Lunars as a mild force of Moorcockian Law (Gloranthan Chaos is by definition not part of the universe, so we can leave that out). In such a situation there might not even be a need for an EC. Hmmmmm - Glorantha as (a slightly upset) Tanelorn?

Although I'm sorely tempted to propose Zzabur as a Gloranthan EC...

 

[atgxtg]

I think I'd reverse Gbaji's idea and make the Lunars Chaotic and the Orlanthi Lawful.

Basically, The Lunars have embraced Chaos and have an multifaceted, ever growing society, while the Olanthi have their own culture/worldview and are inflexible about it.

One difficulty with Glorantha is that it has many different cultures that are "Lawful" in EC terms, but spend more time fighting against each other than against Chaos. Each culture has it's own Panthons, myths, and beliefs, and they do not all agree on certain key points.

The nature of most EC stories tend to use a less multicultural, more "Good vs Evil" sort of backdrop with the two sides more clearly defined. The difficulty lies with EC7s Lords of Law. Basically, they are so stagnant and unchanging that there would be little strife among them.

Glorantha, in EC terms is like a setting where Chaos has somehow infected the Lords of Law, causing them to fight among themselves. Or perhaps the Gloranthan Gods are all Lords of Chaos fighting over a plane, after taking it from Law. Things didn't work out and Law (and Balance) was brought back, in the form of the Great Compromise, to keep the Lords of Chaos from constant fighting among themselves. Wakboth could be a major Lord of Chaos who didn't go along with the deal, and is trying to undo everything.



Perhaps the best fiit would be to just assume that the Glorantha gods are some sort of alien set of Gods unlike the Lords of Law or Chaos, such beings are mentioned in the EC cycle. It appears that different Gods have existed in the multiverse, and have been destroyed in the past. Strombringer was made to wipe out a race of Gods, and the Corum saga ends with the destruction of the Lords of Law and Chaos.

What if the EC cycle's Black Sword = Glorantha's Death, and the gods that the Blacksword/Death/Strombringer is supposed to wipe out are the Gods of Glorantha?

That would give you a EC twist to a Glorathan setting, while being farily true to Glorantha. Death did cause a lot of the problems in Glorantha7s prehistory.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

The difficulty lies with EC7s Lords of Law. Basically, they are so stagnant and unchanging that there would be little strife among them.

That is not quite accurate. An example of a Duchess of Law gone bad is Lady Miggea (The Dreamthief's Daughter) who tries to conquer Tanelorn. It doesn't require much imagination to suppose that some Lords of Law are more militant or less patient than their fellow lords, and quite happy to usurp power in order to enforce their personal views of what should be done, even if that requires the crushing of their obviously less flexible and stagnant brothers.

What if the EC cycle's Black Sword = Glorantha's Death, and the gods that the Blacksword/Death/Strombringer is supposed to wipe out are the Gods of Glorantha?
That would give you a EC twist to a Glorathan setting, while being farily true to Glorantha. Death did cause a lot of the problems in Glorantha7s prehistory.

Nice idea! Allow the characters to kill of the major gods one by one, whilst being hunted by all the initiates, priests and rune lords of the cults who's rune magic is suddenly cut off...

<PC>"But we've come to save you from the manipulations of the Lords of the Higher Worlds!"

<NPC>"You bastards, what happened to my Bless Crops spell? My family and clan are starving to death without it!!!"

<Death Rune chuckling evilly>"Death is the only truth. Everything belongs to me..."

Once the original Death rune is free then no pantheon will rest whilst it remains in the hands of a mortal, thus setting in process the paths to their own destruction.

 

[toothill man]

dont forget slaine were champions of the differant gods and goddesses as well as time/dimension travel is known but only to the greatest heroes also leyser weapons and evil monsters trying to destroy the world to harvest pain

seems a ideal stop to me and I do not think hawkmoon or elric would last 5 rounds with slaine in full warp

 

[Loz]

dont forget slaine were champions of the differant gods and goddesses as well as time/dimension travel is known but only to the greatest heroes also leyser weapons and evil monsters trying to destroy the world to harvest pain

seems a ideal stop to me and I do not think hawkmoon or elric would last 5 rounds with slaine in full warp

Elric without Stormbringer might experience some difficulties against a fully spasming Slaine. But WITH Stormbringer... I dunno...

There are stats for both Elric and Stormbringer in the new book. When RQ Slaine appears, get the stats from both and run a fight to see who wins out. I'm sure it would be interesting!

 

[atgxtg]

My money would be on Elric. At least if he as Strombringer. He has killed Lords of Chaos with that thing. Especially in MRQ. Elric attacks, and should manage to at least nick Slaine, Strombringer starts sucking down Slaine7s soul, and gives Elric the Stength and Endurance to be able to withstand Slaine's counter attack.