Ebooks

[captainjack23]

And you may want to consider actually reading the thread properly first before you lecture people on what it's about.

And what does that snippishness have to do with anything ?

Frankly, you're the one who commented on my post, which was about what I wanted to say. And really, once you're two or three responses into a discussion is a silly time to decide that something is OT and retroactively unworthy of comment, especially when you started it.

So, with all due respect, even if that isn't enough, at worst it's topic drift, a defense you've used often enough, so it applies here too. As you've said to me, "just because you think something is off topic, doesn't mean it is." Besides, when I try and fork a thread you're in, you complain about that, too.

Read what I wrote, and comment on that, fine. Use it as a soapbox to rail about other things.....expect to get asked what the heck you are going on about.

I said what I wanted, in response to another poster, and when you questioned it, I added some things that supported it; I'm fine with the fact that you don't think them relevant. Obviously, I couldn't convince you that the sun will come up tomorrow, so the fact that you don't agree with me is pretty much something I can live with. Time to move on for both of us, I think.

Go buy some discount online games, or whatever you do to relax. I'm headed off to game in a gamestore sponsored RPG at the local Con - Kubla Con ! The Kahn of Cons !

 

[EDG]

As for paying "arm and teeth", your average MMO is about $15 a month. So you can get about three months of MMO play for the same cost as your average RPG corebook.

3 months vs years.

I'm not convinced by that argument either. Yes, you potentially get to keep the RPG book indefinitely, but that doesn't remotely mean that you will actually use it for all that time. Both myself and my friends have RPG books on their shelves that we haven't looked at for years and most likely will never look at again. I'm never going to look at my D&D3.5 books again either, and for the price of the corebooks alone I could get about 10 months of MMORPG play - which in terms of continuous play is certainly longer than the huge D&D campaign I played in.

Plus, I don't need other local people to play an MMO. It's hard to organise people to regularly play once a week, but I can play the MMO every night if I want to.

That's not to say I want tabletop RPGs to die, far from it. I'm just not willing to support B&M stores if I can get my RPGs for cheaper online. Right now it's a trade off - I order a book for cheaper online, but have to wait for it to arrive... or I can go down to the FLGS and pick it up now but pay about $10 more for the privilege. But that's my decision and mine alone, and I'm not remotely sympathetic to the idea supporting the FLGS just because they're there.

 

[Dave Chase]

Well I would normally have a lot to say about this off topic issue of FLGS and promotion of games (any type including RPG's)

But that would way off the initial topic of this thread.

I will say in very general terms that promotion and healthy growth of a store can be done. It must be planned, desired and sought out to be done.

Dave Chase

 

[tneva82]

Forcing them to do something they don't want to do isn't going to be fun for anyone.

Precicely. If they don't want to do more than hack&slash why should I bother to run hack&slash games for them when that's not my preferences? They can play their hack&slash in MMORPG's all they want.

It would be futile to get them play non-hack&slash because they don't WANT to play non-hack&slash. Meanwhile I don't want to play hack&slash(if I want I go play WoW. It's pretty decent hack&slash game afterall) so why should I bother to run one with inferior tools? Traveller rules can't compare in hack&slash to MMORPG. Neither can D&D. Neither can any p&p RPG. They aren't DESIGNED for hack&slash except for D&D but for that it's too heavy for average MMORPG'er.

 

[tneva82]

Less convinient. Store is roughly in the middle of town=roughly same time for everybody. Game session also allows to buy stuff you need while you are at it. Space is also "little" issue. Not many students have big houses capable of having lots of people comfortable(my own apartment could comfortably hold one. Two and things got crowded. Try to hold RPG session there...).

You live in a broom cupboard?

I can't believe that it's that hard to find an area big enough to be able to run a tabletop RPG, sorry.

Should we sit on floor then? One chair. One bed. That's all there was as far as sitting position comes. And bed isn't most comfortable place to sit in RPG setting and dice rolling on bed is nightmare.

 

[tneva82]

And one where the roomemates (or family) won't be inconvenienced by the noise.
And one less place to game is one less place to game.

Precicely. The houses where would be room had family who might be less than excited if bunch of strangers comes up and starts up(inevitably loud) session. Shop with dedicated playing area ensures ability to play without being cramped or annoying hell out of those who aren't interested in the game.

 

[tneva82]

No real need, there's always online play.

As I said before I have tried it. Lot less convinient. Trying to get through small scenario will take HOURS where it's walk in the park in person. Frankly solo playing is more fun than IRC RPG.

Just isn't as quick&easy as being face to face playing.

 

[tneva82]

I'm not convinced by that argument either. Yes, you potentially get to keep the RPG book indefinitely, but that doesn't remotely mean that you will actually use it for all that time. Both myself and my friends have RPG books on their shelves that we haven't looked at for years and most likely will never look at again.

That's your problem. Myself I have all the rules I really need are in the traveller main rulebook. Everything else I need(setting) I can work on my own if I need it. That book alone has all the rules I need for the rest of my life.

Plus, I don't need other local people to play an MMO. It's hard to organise people to regularly play once a week, but I can play the MMO every night if I want to.

Sure if you are just interested in hack&slash go to place A, kill all the monsters and loot them and repeat. If you want bit more interesting story you can't do that with MMO.

 

[AndrewW]

No real need, there's always online play.

As I said before I have tried it. Lot less convinient. Trying to get through small scenario will take HOURS where it's walk in the park in person. Frankly solo playing is more fun than IRC RPG.

Just isn't as quick&easy as being face to face playing.

Maybe for you. I find that playing using IRC works rather well. Easier schedule wise then trying to arrange everyone getting together in person.

 

[tneva82]

Maybe for you. I find that playing using IRC works rather well. Easier schedule wise then trying to arrange everyone getting together in person.

Maybe schedeluding but that has been less of a problem compared to simply trying to type in describitions fast enough. Since those tend to be detailed it's taking bloody long to simply type them. Then comes issue of trying to follow activity when everybody is typing at same time(or even worse organising rotation system of whose turn it is now which sends speed to crawl).

Bleh. I rather play solo. Much faster&easier that way.

 

[AndrewW]

Maybe for you. I find that playing using IRC works rather well. Easier schedule wise then trying to arrange everyone getting together in person.

Maybe schedeluding but that has been less of a problem compared to simply trying to type in describitions fast enough. Since those tend to be detailed it's taking bloody long to simply type them. Then comes issue of trying to follow activity when everybody is typing at same time(or even worse organising rotation system of whose turn it is now which sends speed to crawl).

If it's the typing another option might be to use one of the VoIP options then.

Bleh. I rather play solo. Much faster&easier that way.

Your choice, I find it easy enough to type things. Has some advantages like logging as well.

 

[Dave Chase]

One of the things that I am learning about the typing game is that if you have your GM/Player notes handy that you can cut and paste certain parts.

You can't do it for the entire game as you never know what players or GM's will be upto but it works for those details and facts that don't change.

Dave Chase

 

[EDG]

That's your problem. Myself I have all the rules I really need are in the traveller main rulebook. Everything else I need(setting) I can work on my own if I need it. That book alone has all the rules I need for the rest of my life.

All true. But it's a complete fallacy to say that RPG books are worth more than MMO gaming because of that. What's important is how often you use the book to get that worth out of it, not the fact that you own the book and can get that worth whenever you want.

The point is that RPGs still have a practical, usable lifetime, just like MMOs. I don't believe for one second that you or anyone else uses every RPG product that they ever bought all the time. People use RPGs for as long as they're interested in playing or running it, and sooner or later they move on to some other RPG, and after that it just becomes a book on a shelf. That period of use is what should be measured as the useful lifetime of an RPG.

Sure if you are just interested in hack&slash go to place A, kill all the monsters and loot them and repeat. If you want bit more interesting story you can't do that with MMO.

But "hack and slash" is not unique to MMOs. Hell, it originated in RPGs. And some GMs are arguably as limiting as MMOs too - stray off their intricate plot and they'll railroad you back onto it.

And not all MMOs are "hack and slash" anyway - look at EVE Online. That's arguably the closest MMO to Traveller - you own a spaceship, you can go trading with it, or mining asteroids, or blowing up pirates, or being a pirate, or making your own stations and alliances with others, carving out territory, going exploring, doing quests... and all the while you're learning skills and upgrading your ship and getting your own merry little fleet. Sure, it's still a bit limited, but that's much more wide open than WoW and it's a lot more player-driven than quest-driven.

And right now some MMOs even have a mission-design facility that allows players to create their own content (City of Heroes is one). So you can potentially even make your own adventures and quests too in MMOs, which blurs the line even further.

 

[AndrewW]

One of the things that I am learning about the typing game is that if you have your GM/Player notes handy that you can cut and paste certain parts.

Yup, I've done that before. Had one I was running awhile back where I had all the descriptions for some rooms already typed up and just copy/pasted into IRC.

 

[BP]

Just stumbled upon this and it seems pretty relevant...

 

[Emperor Herdan]

Just stumbled upon this and it seems pretty relevant...

Interesting and bang on (from MPOV).

Take care

E. Herdan

 

[captainjack23]

Just stumbled upon this and it seems pretty relevant...

Interesting and bang on (from MPOV).

Take care

E. Herdan

Yes indeed. I think that many of the losses that are sometimes blamed on PDF and on online sales are actually due to that problem -and while I'd like to say that the online and e sales will be forcing improvement, I doubt that it offsets all the reasons why small businesses fail; having the wrong stock and poor customer service being big parts of that in any field. And neither of those are really effected or caused by online sales. If you can't get stock to a customer that's right there, its not the fault of the competition that they move on.

So how does this relate ? An interesting point I got from discussions in the dealers room this weekend was that providing player support helps a store to know what its customers want, and helps to sell "exploratory" units, both of which which tend to generate customer loyalty. In other words, a store that provides support, not only sells more, but also gives me access to more new games and players than I'd get without it. Win/Win.

Additionally, those were the stores that seemed less concerned about online discounting or PDF sales, some provided their oown discounts, some didn't. It seemed that the only place they were worried was with really high ticket items, but they didn;t generate the bulk of the cash flow in either case (I asked some of the onliners that were there, too).

Interestingly, and it makes sense, it was pointed out that discretionary money (entertainment) is less effected by price competition than basics (food, professional stuff, etc); intangibles, such as support, are much more important in hobby and entertainment sales.


And, finally, after this weekend at areally excellent con, I'm adding support for cons, ( sponsored and organized games and shopping opportunities) to the list of arguments for "why B&M stores are a good thing for gaming in general".

 

[rust]

Yep, for me the quality of the service makes or breaks the deal.

I am quite willing to pay a little more if the purchase includes friendly
advice by someone who knows enough about roleplaying games to
tell me what is available, what I should take a look at or where I can
find some specific materíal for a specific purpose.

Amazon & Co. can only sell me what I already discovered myself, and
their ability and willingness to answer any questions beyond "Yes, we
have it" or "No, not available" is very limited.

Besides, I know my "dealer", and therefore I also know what to make
of his opinion on a game, which provides me with a far more reliable in-
formation source that any reviews.

 

[Emperor Herdan]

Yep, for me the quality of the service makes or breaks the deal.

I am quite willing to pay a little more if the purchase includes friendly
advice by someone who knows enough about roleplaying games to
tell me what is available, what I should take a look at or where I can
find some specific materíal for a specific purpose.

Amazon & Co. can only sell me what I already discovered myself, and
their ability and willingness to answer any questions beyond "Yes, we
have it" or "No, not available" is very limited.

Besides, I know my "dealer", and therefore I also know what to make
of his opinion on a game, which provides me with a far more reliable in-
formation source that any reviews.

And vice versa... Your dealer knows your opinions and thoughts and can float new materials past you before committing to a large "unknown" purchase... A good feedback IMO

Take care

E. Herdan

 

[EDG]

And vice versa... Your dealer knows your opinions and thoughts and can float new materials past you before committing to a large "unknown" purchase... A good feedback IMO

I've never seen an RPG shop that has someone who will actually sell you stuff. It usually just sits on a shelf and then you pick it up and pay them and that's that. There's usually some interaction at the till, but that's about it.

But actual hands-on salesman tactics seems to be rare in gaming stores.