Early vs Crusade era EA

[Slightly Norse John]

I've been using various ship viewers and proxies so far, I finally actually bothered to buy the book and try this one out.
The Earth Time Wars started with a 5-point Raid;
Crusade era consisted of the Marathon Hidetaka, the Hyperion Waldemar Janacek, and the Chronoses (Chronii? Chrons?) Active, Ardent.
Early EA deployed Hyperion Indomitable and Nova Arrogant, Sagittarii Pilum, Lancea, Olympii Rominten, Pallberg, Artemii Dingwall, Milngavie.
CE got deployment and second turn init, early got first and third. Both forces deployed in a generic formation, not greatly adapting themselves to the enemy- my Saggi's at my rear flanks pointing in, so they could tack and alternate fore and flank racks, Nova central, Hyperion beside- right centre- and slightly behind, Olympus in front of each Saggi, Artemii as the joints between the flanks.
Andy running the Crusade era deployed in a bowl, Marathon and Hyperion fairly close and central, Chronos out on the flanks pointing inward. He had first move, and raced the Active forward, speculatively, trying to break up my formation. I countercharged with an Artemis, getting gun range, Ardent moved up to support, art- 2 Milngavie (Named because I hoped it would get blown up), moved forward and got range on Ardent. The Nova trundled up and was boresighted by Hidetaka, Indomitable boresighted the Active, and the Olympii moved into position to support the Artemii next round.
Fire was duly exchanged, Active being hit hard. Instead of shooting with it while he had a chance, Andy chose to use the Marathon, landing a mere four hits with the main gun on Arrogant- and two crits. One of them a 6...1. massive relief. Dingwall then opened up on the Artemis, thinking to open the way for Lancea's missiles; three hits, the interceptors rolled a perfect GURPS crit. Three ones. No block, one crit, 1-5. That was enough. It worked on the other flank, Milngavie blowing away the intercept and Pilum landing four missiles, one getting a crew crit that skeletoned Ardent instantly. (Ardent's interceptors made up for it later by stopping the Olympii's missiles cold.)
Round 2, and the fighters come into play, Arrogant's mobbing the Janacek and depleting her interceptors, Janacek's and Hidetaka's doing the same to Milngavie. My brain was working again and I was no longer inspired to use my largest ship as an initiative sink. Instead the Artemii got the job, and got a boresight each for their pains, Milngavie from the Kanacek, Dingwall from the Hidetaka- but Indomitable locked on to the Janacek in return. Rominten and Pallberg made good speed and found targets, Lancea advanced bringing her unfired missiles into reach, Pilum came about to present a fresh rack.
Hidetaka slagged Dingwall with five hits and a 2-6 crit, and knocked out Pallberg's interceptors. Indomitable tried to drop Janacek before she could fire, did heavy but not decisive damage, and Janacek crippled Milngavie. Ardent's hull and interceptors soaked Milngavie's efforts and a return railgun salvo finished the Artemis- shortly before Pallberg's fore pulse cannon and railguns broke through the Chronos' hull and decrewed her. Lancea's misiles came close to doing for the Janacek, but she limped on into the next round- immobile. Pilum held fire, waiting for a hole in Hidetaka's interceptors.
Round 3, and it's looking as if the future isn't all it's cracked up to be. Janacek sinked, Pilum moved up, Hidetaka lined up on her, Arrogant accelerated into position between them, perfect broadside shots. Indomitable locked on the Hidetaka, Pallberg and Rominten had their missiles back.
Arrogant fired first, knocking down the interceptors of both Crusade ships and scoring a 6-5 crit on Hidetaka. Revenge? only 4 damage, 12 crew. Hidetaka ignored the Nova, searing but not dropping the Pilum, and firing LPAs in beam mode at Indomitable, Rominten and Pallberg, doing a handful of hits, and a 1-4 crit on Indomitable. Pallberg railgunned and missiled the Janacek, finishing her. Everything remaining pounded on the Hidetaka, until it began to look as if she was going to get away, AJPing out at about 50% damage and a couple of points above skeleton, only the Indomitable's beam left- and it scored 5 hits and a 2-6 crit. A mass boarding action ensued in round 4.

Contrast and compare; Indomitable and Waldemar Janacek. Identical, but one turned in a fighting performance light years ahead of the other. I don't think I cheesed it with the early EA fleet, but I do think it makes a far more effective fighting organisation. The Marathon is a very nice ship, but only once and that by slowness on my part did it fire it's main weapon at a ship that wasn't 2 PL's lower. Too many chiefs and not enough clansmen.

 

[E Nicely]

A far better organization? I doubt it. You're basing that on one game with 2 specific selections of ships in a PL:R game. Early Years is a good list but you're pretty much making your conclusion based on the Marathon. It's kind of funny that someone would make a conclusion like that based on one Raid game.

At PL:B Crusade Era would probably wipe up the floor with Early Years.

 

[Slightly Norse John]

What maskes you think we're not going to try other PL's?
For Skirmish, it'll probably be Chronos, two assault Hyperion, two logistic support Hermes against two Olympus, two Artemis, two Hermes.
On the other hand, there was a reason for starting here. Raid is the 'average', most commonly rolled PL; a force that can't do the bread and butter, can't function at this level, is a force in deep strategic trouble.

The only thing I can find fault with in the Marathon itself is it's secondary firepower. A couple of railguns would have been nice- but essentially, it's a very good ship. It can't do everything itself, though; it needs better support than it gets from the rest of the fleet list, to initiative sink for it and finish off the kills it starts. It's main gun was wasted on the smaller ships it did target, and it was unlucky not to do worse to the Nova.

If anything, the ship I really dislike from the list is the Chronos, and it's not really it's fault. For lack of alternatives it's forced into a role, initiative sink and frontal attack, that deprives it of any real chance to shine. That job needs to be done by a ship you can afford to take risks with, lose if necessary, and the Chronos is too big and too potentially useful for that.

EDIT; We're going to do a Battle-5 Annihilation, we've worked out what the forces are but we're too tired to play it out, tomorrow or Tuesday probably.
Marathon, Apollo, two Chronos, Delphi, Hyperion, two Hyperion Assault and four Hermes,
against Avenger, Nova, three Hyperion, two Sagittarius, three Artemis, three Olympus, and four Hermes.

 

[E Nicely]

EDIT; We're going to do a Battle-5 Annihilation, we've worked out what the forces are but we're too tired to play it out, tomorrow or Tuesday probably.
Marathon, Apollo, two Chronos, Delphi, Hyperion, two Hyperion Assault and four Hermes,
against Avenger, Nova, three Hyperion, two Sagittarius, three Artemis, three Olympus, and four Hermes.

Good, looking forward to the report. But you're hamstringing your Crusade fleet by playing those Assault Hyperions IMO. Another Marathon or an Omega might be better, 4 Chronos (adding 2) in any fleet is nasty especially against Artemis or Olympus seems like more of an even fight. Just my opinion but it seems like the Crusade fleet has an achilles heel.

 

[Silvereye]

I think it is good to know that the EA era fleets can stand up to each other, and have the same chance of winning as everyone else. Look forward to the other battle reports.

 

[Voronesh]

Im looking forward to the other reports.

One game at Raid pl isnt really something to base an opinion on. (Unless it involves 10 Sags...)

But basically i would expect that the Crusade era gets more and more powerful at higher lvls, with the return being true for Early era.

 

[fluffy05]

Nice batrep but it would be easier to read if you put the ship type next to their names all through the report - I only say this as it is annoying to keep going to the start of the post to figure out what ship fire at what. - No Offence attended in any way so please don't take offence.

Look forward to your next games batrep !!! Keep em coming!

 

[Slightly Norse John]

OK, I've already tried to post this and had it bumped, for time/length, so this will be a multi parter...

The fleet selections; we used the multiple split rules, halving down, one Battle turns into two Raid, one of those turns into two Skirmish, one of those turns into two Patrol, that's how the Assault Hyperion got there. They were a mistake, less useful than two more Hermes would have been. 2-4-0-6 would have worked. Or, given the lack of use Weaver was, 3-2-0-6, adding maybe an Omega.

Again, both sides deployed in more or less generic formations; Crusade era had Marathon (stuff it, I can't be bothered doing the italics) Cadwalladr, centre, Apollo- class Bruchmuller, right centre with the Delphi scout Weaver close by (achieved nothing- no stealth to reduce, never managed a lock on, didn't even fire her guns), Hyperion Eisenstein left centre, Chronos'es Matriarch and Meridian forward on the flanks, Assault Hyperion Zouave and Fusilier rear flanks and basically hiding, four Hermes, two on each extreme flank, Rambouillet and Fontenot on one side, Clairvaux and Montaillou on the other.

There were some very funky point splits on the original EA side too, resuting in 0-0-5-8-4. Avenger class Eagle, Nova class Defender, both turning in mediocre performances, but what else to take? The +1 Command was a great equaliser, anyway- even if I did manage to blow up half my own fighters with an ill advised spot of overkill.
Three Hyperions, Provornyy, Gremyaschii and Soobrazitelnyy- all traditional Russian naval names, and if anyone knows what they mean, could they please tell me?
Basically, trident formation. Eagle and Defender together rear centre, three Hyperion wide line abreast with an attack group around each- which formation lasted all of half a turn in combat.
Sagittarii Arquebus and Culverin rear flanks pointing inward- Arquebus at too shallow an angle, ending out of range on round 1. Oops. They laddered quite effectively, snaking to present flank then fore then flank racks.
Olympii Lawson on the right, O'Bannon centre, Reinstein left. Artemii Pollok (another one I was secretly hoping would go boom) centre, Waterford left, Burnham right centre.
Hermes Wheeler, Bowlby left attack group, Harris, Frazer right attack group.
So much for setup. More in a mo.

 

[Slightly Norse John]

Right, one small crash later- this isn't going to be an exact blow by blow; too many ships involved. (Total playing time was only a shade over two hours, incidentally.)
Round one began with initiative sinking on both sides, Hermes creeping forward at minimum move; then we had the first game of chicken. I deliberately sent Hyperion Gremyaschii forward and outward, into position but out of range on the Meridian (Chronos), but within strike range of the Cadwalladr (Marathon.) Mathematically, we both knew that until Andy started chopping down my initiative sinks, there was no way he was going to get a shot at anything bigger than Skirmish. So I gave him a chance at something bigger to draw him out, and he took the bait.
The rest of movement consisted of most of both sides either moving towards the centre of the play area or deliberately hanging back. Fighters were launched and grouped into attack packs, seven Thunderbolt on his side versus nineteen Fury on mine.
In firing, it looked as if he had got the better of the game of chicken, crippling and skeletoning the Hyperion Gremyaschii with one burst and taking missile fire that did a lot of damage but no notable crits in return. There was much other swapping of Flash rounds, Bruchmuller (Apollo) taking a chance on knocking bits off Avenger- class Eagle, and doing the same- decent damage, no crits.
Round 2, initiative sinks on both sides, all out of missiles, basically avoiding contact until they had a chance to shoot again. My Artemis converged on the Marathon, the Chronos curved towards the centre to protect it, the Olympii converged looking for shots on the Chronos, more successfully on the right where they could double up, but Hyperion Soobrazitelnyy had been badly deployed, by me, and couldn't line up Meridian (Chronos)- actually couldn't get close enough without APtE. Cadwalladr (Marathon) picked the largest target of mine that had already moved when it's go came round, an Olympus, and Eisenstein (Hyperion) picked on Artemis Burnham that had the Marathon in it's fore arc and Matriarch (Chronos) in aft. A fighter pack attacked each of Artemises Pollok and Waterford, I intercepted with groups of my own, and nine Fury flights mobbed Cadwalladr (Marathon) trying to take down the interceptors.

 

[Slightly Norse John]

And no, I'm not doing this just to get my post count up. Only one Thunderbolt survived the dogfights, and did a little- the furies strafed Cadwalladr (Marathon) fairly effectively, but I chose to, rather than aiming at her directly, to fire the ship she had her boresight on, to make sure I got some use out of it before it went boom. This was an error of judgement on my part- right idea, wrong ship. Olympus Lawson knocked the interceptors off a Chronos and crippled the initiative sink Clairvaux (Hermes), crossed her fingers and waited for the light at the end of the tunnel- and was very surprised to only take 19/18. Cadwalladr's fore LPAs in Beam mode did enough to take Hyperion Gremyaschii down to exactly zero crew and stop her firing, and the other LPAs knocked down interceptors to make openings for the Chronos.
Artemis Waterford launched a blistering railgun salvo that paralysed Meridian (Chronos) and was lucky not to be blown to bits in return, Eisenstein (Hyperion) detonated Artemis Burnham before she could fire on Cadwalladr (Marathon), but she was still my primary target; Of the Sagittarii, Arquebus lobbed a broadside salvo at Cadwalladr and Culverin shot her fore racks at Meridian (Chronos), decrewing the Chronos and landing heavy damage and a speed 0 crit on the Marathon. Nasty, but worse was to come. Hyperion Provornyy's gun crews got carried away and landed a heavy laser salvo that took the Marathon 6 points past zero, and the new cruiser fireballed, taking all nine Starfury squadrons with her.
Matriarch (Chronos) finished off Olympus Lawson and crippled the Waterford, but with two of their heavy hitters removed from play, it was not looking happy for the Crusade force.

 

[Slightly Norse John]

In the center of the board on round 3, strange things were happening.
Weaver (Delphi) was trying to do a U turn, Artemis Pollok managed to move almost up to touching distance, and ended up basically dead ahead of Eisenstein (Hyperion). Eisenstein duly moved forward, these three ending within 4". No, I don't mention that by accident. Matriarch (Chronos) ran across the middle of the board into a denial position, target in every arc essentially, most of which would be shooting back at her. Olympii Reinstein and O'Bannon were close together on the left by this point and moved up to present starboard arcs to Matriarch, port arcs to Rambouillet and Fontenot (Hermes) and bow to Eisenstein (Hyperion).
Artemis Waterford shambled slowly after the Matriarch, Hyperion Provornyy, with her gun crews freshly reprimanded for blowing up half their own fighter force but not caring in the slightest, lined up on Eisenstein, the rest of the Early- era fleet moved up or turned to present fresh arcs.
Bruchmuller (Apollo) opened the shooting by trying to stop Provornyy, landing a couple of hits through the interceptors but not getting the crit Andy needed. Waterford had a go at Weaver (Delphi), making it through the stealth and interceptors but, unsurprisingly, not doing much once the shot got there. Eisenstein fired on Artemis Pollok, who went from 10% to 95% damage in one blast but obstinately refused to take that last hit- two interceptions on a 6 and two bulkheads, and fired her aft guns at and dropped Fontenot rather than take a poor chance on Weaver (Delphi)'s stealth.
Not that it saved her for very long. It's toss of a coin time between promotion and court martial- Hyperion Provornyy's gun crews overdid it again, hitting and doing a total of 33/28 including a 6-4 and a 2-6 crit to Eisenstein (Hyperion), which exploded. The blast took out the Pollok, which, also, exploded, and did a 6-5 crit to the Weaver, which, in one of the most amazing sequences I have come across, not wanting to be left out exploded too.

 

[Slightly Norse John]

Afterthought;
Matriarch (Chronos) mauled O'Bannon but the pair of Olympii threw enough fire, finishing with missiles, to finally take her down.
Round 4 consisted of a Crusade era escape attempt. Everything left- Bruchmuller (Apollo), Zouave and Fusilier (Assault Hyperion), Rambouillet and Montaillou (Hermes)- opened JP.
Of course, the trick was going to be living long enough to get there. There was no fire from the Crusade era force- no AJP, not even on the Apollo (?)- so it was a pure bombardment. Between them, Sagittarius Culverin and Hermes Wheeler mauled and speed-0'd the Zouave, and in her first and only shot of the game, Hyperion Soobrazitelnyy did enough further damage to detonate her.
Fusilier escaped by default; everyone was too busy shooting Bruchmuller (Apollo). For once, Hyperion Provornyy's gun crews managed not to make something explode. They did do the largest single slice of damage, including a 4-5 crit, but it was Olympus Reinstein that shot the Bruchmuller's engines out and Sagittarius Arquebus that put the last salvo in to claim the kill. Rambouillet and Montaillou (Hermes) got splashed as well.
So...fairly disastrous for the new era, then. What went right, or wrong?

Andy took an appalling risk with the Cadwalladr, that worked out badly on the day, but- what else was he supposed to do about the Sagittarii, and the Command bonus that meant there was only one point in it, and I was likely to win initiative as not?
We're still finding the limits of this ship. He tried to manoeuvre it as if it was a miniature Warlock, taking a chance not because it could but because it had to be done. For once, I actually believe the fluff. 'A match for ships twice it's size'- I can buy that. It's ships half it's size that are the problem. There's nothing wrong with it that a couple of Olympus escorts wouldn't cure.
The Delphi was a waste. Another Chronos would have been far more useful. They did function effectively, but were simply overwhelmed by numbers. They gave out as much damage as they took, but between multiple smaller craft, the early era had more to lose.

 

[Ripple]

AJP would not have helped as they would have been restricted by the SA open jump point. AJP helps you come through a jump point but does not seem to help when you open one. Matt might rule me wrong here but has not yet I beleive.

Ripple

 

[lastbesthope]

AJP deviates less when you open a jump point.
That's the only difference in opening a point.

LBH

 

[Lord David the Denied]

The outbound jump point doesn't deviate, though, does it? :?

 

[lastbesthope]

The outbound jump point doesn't deviate, though, does it? :?

Not so far as I understand, only hyper to real jump points deviate.

LBH

 

[Lord David the Denied]

So, the man was talking about trying to jump out... but as you say, the tighter positioning is the other benefit of AJP over JP.

 

[lastbesthope]

Ahh, didn't realise the jump out bit, my bad.

LBH

 

[Greg Smith]

The advantage AJP gives when jumping out is to allow the jump point to be placed in any arc, not just the front.

 

[lastbesthope]

I'd forgottena bout that, but then I do play with an all AJP fleet , noone's ever had to open a (A)JP for another ship before

LBH