MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
How is it "new" if it predates the birth of 99% of Charted Space? Look at all of the technology in your life. Do you consider anything made before you were born to be "new"?
Drop Tanks... Back From the Dead?
- Thread starter Ol'Weedy
- Start date
CordwainerFish
Emperor Mongoose
"You hear about the guy who attached drop tanks to his air/raft? Well, what happened is..."
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Would have opted for solar panels.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Using CYT HG as that is what I know best:
A TL14 warship can be jump 5, but it would have to waste 50% of its hull carrying fuel.
Use drop tanks and that 50% can be more armour, heavier weapons, a larger spinal.
Equip it with drop tanks and it can flit about as jump 3 carrying the drop tanks along for the ride.
The TL15 Imperium can go one better. More efficient power plants mean they can carry maximum weapons and armour and sufficient internal fuel for a jump 1.
A TL14 warship can be jump 5, but it would have to waste 50% of its hull carrying fuel.
Use drop tanks and that 50% can be more armour, heavier weapons, a larger spinal.
Equip it with drop tanks and it can flit about as jump 3 carrying the drop tanks along for the ride.
The TL15 Imperium can go one better. More efficient power plants mean they can carry maximum weapons and armour and sufficient internal fuel for a jump 1.
While I appreciate obsolete canon, the concept of the special jump accumulator was, like other stuff in High Guard '79, dead within a year or so.
High Guard '80 removes the mention of them:
"Disposable fuel tanks may be added to the ship to increase its range. These L-Hyd Tanks are fitted to the outside of the ship, and drop away before jump. The result is more interior space available for cargo and passengers. Such tanks must be replaced each time they are used, so they are practical only on runs to civilized areas, or to increase fuel capacity to allow several jumps. L-Hyd tanks are installed outside the hull, and increase the total tonnage of the ship; drives are reduced in their efficiency based on the total tonnage of the ship. With tanks retained, efficiency
is decreased, and jump capability is reduced; when the tanks drop away, tonnage is reduced, and the drive efficiency is increased. L-Hyd Tanks cost
Cr10,000, plus Cr1,000 per ton of fuel carried."
It's an interesting historical note, but I don't see that much percentage in reversing a design decision GDW made 45 years ago.
But YTU, of course.
High Guard '80 removes the mention of them:
"Disposable fuel tanks may be added to the ship to increase its range. These L-Hyd Tanks are fitted to the outside of the ship, and drop away before jump. The result is more interior space available for cargo and passengers. Such tanks must be replaced each time they are used, so they are practical only on runs to civilized areas, or to increase fuel capacity to allow several jumps. L-Hyd tanks are installed outside the hull, and increase the total tonnage of the ship; drives are reduced in their efficiency based on the total tonnage of the ship. With tanks retained, efficiency
is decreased, and jump capability is reduced; when the tanks drop away, tonnage is reduced, and the drive efficiency is increased. L-Hyd Tanks cost
Cr10,000, plus Cr1,000 per ton of fuel carried."
It's an interesting historical note, but I don't see that much percentage in reversing a design decision GDW made 45 years ago.
But YTU, of course.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Looks like the rumor section of the Milieu 0 book still thinks they are a thing.
page 110
"Company spokesman for Prestige Line announces indefinite suspension of high capacity service to this sub- sector pending outcome of the official investigation of the recent Belmont Lark tragedy, in which the ship was lost with 158 lives due to a jump capacitor discharge immediately prior to jump."
This was T4, so probably like 1996 or so.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
What is the difference anyhow? They both hold power temporarily. Beyond that, I have no idea. So, instead of being a separate purchase, they were included in all jump drives?
So it seems. The Force Field (Black Globe) section was rewritten - 1979 mentions its capacitors might overload, but 1980 talks about using the capacitors a ship uses for Jump to hold that energy. As far as I can see, the overload aspect in 1979 is just meant to be what happens if the ship takes damage despite the BG being up (no flicker in 1979. Up or down).
I generally ignore High Guard '79 because it was revised so quickly and I never had a copy of it, despite starting in 1980. For those of us used to 1980 it can be a strange read.
I think I had JTAS 7, which has the errata for it, before I got Book 5, and have only read the text of it in the last few years.
I generally ignore High Guard '79 because it was revised so quickly and I never had a copy of it, despite starting in 1980. For those of us used to 1980 it can be a strange read.
I think I had JTAS 7, which has the errata for it, before I got Book 5, and have only read the text of it in the last few years.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
The issue is not the capacitors or not, the difference is can the drop tanks be recovered and reused? The destruction of the drop tanks on use is mentioned in the previous canon, but not mentioned in HG80. It says they have to be replaced if used, but no mention of if they are destroyed on use.
Can they be recovered and reused:
If yes - setting changes to allow jump stations and oilers
If no - no change to the setting as such.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
It appears form canon that the words were used interchangeably, capacitor is mentioned in TAS articles, but the Gazelle says accumulators.
The distinction between an accumulator and a capacitor is likely a result of trying to make sense of the Annic Nova, originally there was no distinction.
Since the source of the tanks being destroyed is actually JTAS 2, not either High Guard, AND that nothing I've seen in CT or MegaTraveller contradicts that, I'd say it's clear that they're normally not recovered. I wasn't able to find any reference to destruction or recovery in TNE, although there is one distinction in that TNE ones are specifically built as armoured shells wheras earlier editions didn't mention it, but implied they were more fragile than the ship.
Even Mongoose only gives them a chance of being able to be reused if recovered and seems skeptical that anyone would bother.
I could see that a commercial route set up to use them to increase capacity (even just a jump there and jump back one) might find it worthwhile to try to recover tanks. I doubt the Navy would bother, and of course a lot of time warships would be dropping the tanks where they would not be practical to recover.
Even Mongoose only gives them a chance of being able to be reused if recovered and seems skeptical that anyone would bother.
I could see that a commercial route set up to use them to increase capacity (even just a jump there and jump back one) might find it worthwhile to try to recover tanks. I doubt the Navy would bother, and of course a lot of time warships would be dropping the tanks where they would not be practical to recover.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Scrap merchants.
Yes? That was covered about 5 pages ago.
There's two options:
1) Drop tanks are single shot and sometimes blow up your ship, in which case no one uses them and they are irrelevant
2) That gets fixed and they radically change the setting.
So, it could be that the reason only the Gazelle class has them is that they were tested 100 years ago and no one could get them to work properly.
OR
The TAS reports of widespread use in the core and an effort to make them available in the fringe suggest that #2 is the case.
This whole discussion has been predicated on #2 being the case, because if its still #1, then anyone using them is desperate, stupid, or trying to improve them. Not anyone in a commercial or routine military capacity.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
The key difference is if drop tanks are recoverable and then reusable.
Leaving to one side the special capacitor/accumulator requirement that disappeared;
if drop tanks are destroyed when they are dropped then the setting is not affected
if the drop tanks are recoverable and reusable then the logical extension is the jump station and oiler which means jump ships no longer need to carry jump fuel.
Leaving to one side the special capacitor/accumulator requirement that disappeared;
if drop tanks are destroyed when they are dropped then the setting is not affected
if the drop tanks are recoverable and reusable then the logical extension is the jump station and oiler which means jump ships no longer need to carry jump fuel.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Probably aspects that haven't been considered, or thought of.
At least, in canon.
At least, in canon.
Fluffy Bunny Feet
Cosmic Mongoose
Like never dropping the drop tanks and having a cheaper ship that is harder to pirate at a tiny cost in cargo capacity?
