Do you really like MRQ?

[Mugen]

Things that I like about MRQ.
Return to CHA as a stat.
Basic and Advanced skills with properly rationalised skill sets.
Attempt to make opposed percentile rolls central to the system.
Removal of Resistance table
Criticals and specials collapsed into just criticals.
Combat as opposed roll system (though not the one they use).
Removal of general Hit Points (took me a long time to like this)
Combat Actions and Reactions system.
Dedicated POW & Pacts (as in Elric and Guilds)
Hero Points
Improvement Rolls rather than experience ticks
Legendary Abilities (neutral myself but I can see that all my players like them).
Revised sorcery system
Dodge/resilience/persistence as magic defence rather than MP vs MP

Except for the General Hit points removal, I agree with you

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Yeah, but seriously, I dont take offence at people who insult me, they dont know me, just as I would expect mature people to understand that I dont seriously mean to insult them. Its all about people with strong views, lets not assume that everyone is emotionally fragile.

I prefer it all to be about reasoned argument and debate. I don't see any need to insult anyone regardless of whether or not the person being insulted can "take it." After all, it's not that hard to keep it civil and congenial and make a point.

I would like to know when you feel as if you have been insulted by me. I would be fairly surprised if you feel that I had insulted you.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Oh, and Ive just noticed you have a Flying Spaghetti Monster logo, so youre on my side theologically speaking anyway!

 

[Inspector Zero]

Well bitch-slapping aside (Kintire, Yrkoon...) for the sake of balance I should say that I went and bought the BRP Basic Magic supplement thinking this would provide the Shangri-La of cults rules into BRP and I would be one happy RuneQuester and not be houseruling my nights away.

Oh, what a naive fool I am.

Apart from an incomplete Find/Replace job to substitute the word "RuneQuest" for "Basic Roleplaying" the prehensile chaps over at Chaosium have effectively reprinted the old RQIII Magic Book. As it refers to skills and abilities and mechanics from RQIII that don't feature in BRP it means, yep - you've guessed - houseruling to make it fit the system. You'd think they would have wanted to do this themselves.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Well bitch-slapping aside (Kintire, Yrkoon...) for the sake of balance I should say that I went and bought the BRP Basic Magic supplement thinking this would provide the Shangri-La of cults rules into BRP and I would be one happy RuneQuester and not be houseruling my nights away.

Oh, what a naive fool I am.

Apart from an incomplete Find/Replace job to substitute the word "RuneQuest" for "Basic Roleplaying" the prehensile chaps over at Chaosium have effectively reprinted the old RQIII Magic Book. As it refers to skills and abilities and mechanics from RQIII that don't feature in BRP it means, yep - you've guessed - houseruling to make it fit the system. You'd think they would have wanted to do this themselves.

I could have told you this if you had asked. Theyve released these (effectively) reprints as a way of maintaining copyright upon their rulesystem. The fact that these things are credited with authors such as Turney and Stafford should have tipped you off. Im not a Chaosium fanboy, by the way, if you want to even the scores up further.

 

[Deleriad]

Theyve released these (effectively) reprints as a way of maintaining copyright upon their rulesystem.

No they haven't. They're released them as a way to make free money. They already had them so they changed the cover image and name and back off to PDF land at a higher cost they went. I still don't know, by the way, whether the Magic Book contains the errataed rules or not.

By the way, you've not insulted as far as I know. I was responding to your post that claimed it was ok to insult people because it's not meant seriously. I happen to think that is a bad idea. Far better to be polite and focus on the issues rather than trying to add joking 'insults.'

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Theyve released these (effectively) reprints as a way of maintaining copyright upon their rulesystem.

No they haven't. They're released them as a way to make free money. They already had them so they changed the cover image and name and back off to PDF land at a higher cost they went. I still don't know, by the way, whether the Magic Book contains the errataed rules or not.

By the way, you've not insulted as far as I know. I was responding to your post that claimed it was ok to insult people because it's not meant seriously. I happen to think that is a bad idea. Far better to be polite and focus on the issues rather than trying to add joking 'insults.'

Well, youre seeming particularly picky considering you dont want to cause offense.

Their rerelease of that material, yes, was a way to make money, and, I would suggest, to ping Staffords nose at him having given Mongoose rights to the game, as well as, re-enforcing ownership of said game, so to say dismissively, 'No it wasnt' hacks me off, not that I take your insults seriously of course, but maybe we could be polite and stick to the conversation.

You can say, also, it was a way of making 'free money', but that seems particularly one dimensional and a bit naive, Chaosium are a games company and their reason for existence is to make money. They COULD have made it clear that there was next to no new material (if any), in their BRP 'monograph' core books, and I think they were a bit naughty in that case. For 'monograph', I read 'shoddy, unproofed, cheaply made, reprints and fan material, that comes in at the same cost as an average rpg book', and I wont buy any on principal, considering their rates for the author (for 'author' read guy who writes, proofs, pagemakes and picture edits), fall well under the minimum wage and vie for the slave labour rates of Far Eastern workers in the rice industry. But, thats just my opinion.

So where are we? A company making quick bucks out of past glories, and another company going into its second edition of a flawed rewrite. Sounds like yer average situation of the game that we all know and love/hate, Runequest. Im old enough to remember the brown crayon, the GW edition and the Avalon Hill new 'Golden Age'. And Im old enough (and cynical enough), to guess that a new edition of RQ by Mongoose is going to be just as flawed as the old edition. Mongoose dont need to worry, however, because Im stoopid enough to buy anything with Runequest on the cover, even if its full of bollocks.

Apologies for anyone who is insulted by my use of that word, but, as the Sex Pistols proved legally way back in '77, 'bollocks' is a legitimate Anglo-Saxon word, that is deemed acceptable in common usage, so I will continue my right to use it when ever and where ever I wish.

 

[Loz]

Their rerelease of that material, yes, was a way to make money, and, I would suggest, to ping Staffords nose at him having given Mongoose rights to the game

Knowing both Charlie Krank and Greg Stafford pretty well, and having spoken to them both, in the same room, about all of this, I can assure you that there's no animosity between either Greg and Chaosium or Charlie and Issaries. Sure, Chaosium have reprinted the old RQ3 magic rules as a monograph and its a cheap way to make some money (the goods and bads of that are up to individuals to decided upon). But it isn't, and wasn't, an attempt to bloody Stafford's nose.

Not having a go at all BTW; just letting you know some facts. I know there's a perceived simmering feud between the two camps, but if there ever was one, it was over a long time before Chaosium republished the RQ3 magic book.

 

[soltakss]

There is a track record of producing reprinted material for RQ/BRP games. RQ3 reprinted a lot of RQ2 material, albeit with a few changes. Chaosium produce a magic book that is virtually a copy of RQ3's magic book. HQ Trolls had a lot if things that were originally in RQ2/3 Troll supplements.

Did I buy them all? Yes, of course.

What does that tell you?
1. I have more money than sense (since I haven't much money, that shows how much sense I have)
2. I will buy pretty much everything that is Glorantha or RQ based
3. Game companies know this and target their products specifically at idiots like me

Is it reprehensible? Of course.

Will it stop? Of course not.

Do I really mind? Probably not, although RQ Cities was virtually a copy of the Cities pack, which galled a little bit, many years ago.

 

[soltakss]

Not having a go at all BTW; just letting you know some facts.

Facts?

Facts just get in the way of a good argument.

 

[soltakss]

As to the original question (Do you really like MRQ?) here are my thoughts.

The original rulebook had some problems and was generally seen as complete, but the RQ Deluxe rulebook combined a lot of the material and updated it to make more sense.

A lot of rules are scattered about several rulebooks. This is irritating to a certain extent but not unique to Mongoose. I would like to see those core rules being included in the SRD so that the SRD becomes a catch-all rules compendium.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the concept of Opposed Rolls. The implementation might be slightly flawed, but not overly so. I don't like the idea of combat as Opposed, I would use the older RQ3 method, but that is personal opinion.

What I do like about MRQ is the SRD and OGL. These make it easy to produce support supplements and is a lot easier than older versions of RQ.

MRQ has many good features.
The way that it uses Traits to describe various attributes of creatures, ships, items etc is really easy to use.
Enchantments are a lot better than in previous versions of RQ.
Legendary Abilities are a good idea and are well implemented
Opposed Rolls make sense and make up a codified rule which is better than the haphazard "use it when you need it" rules from previous RQ versions
Character generation is easy to use and better than in previous versions

I could find more examples if I looked at the rules.

So, after several years, I can't say that I dislike MRQ.

Do I run an MRQ compaign? No, I run RQ3 because that is what I prefer and because I use 3rd Age Glorantha.

Do I write things using MRQ? Yes, it is far easier to use than even the almighty RQ3.

Do I prefer MRQ to BRP? Probably yes. BRP has some interesting ideas but is very sketchy and is a toolkit rather than a ruleset. BRP tries to be all things to all men and is proven lacking as a result. If MRQ produced more non-fantasy material then it would almost certainly show itself to be better than BRP.

All in my opinion, of course.

Your Opinions May Vary.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Their rerelease of that material, yes, was a way to make money, and, I would suggest, to ping Staffords nose at him having given Mongoose rights to the game

Knowing both Charlie Krank and Greg Stafford pretty well, and having spoken to them both, in the same room, about all of this, I can assure you that there's no animosity between either Greg and Chaosium or Charlie and Issaries. Sure, Chaosium have reprinted the old RQ3 magic rules as a monograph and its a cheap way to make some money (the goods and bads of that are up to individuals to decided upon). But it isn't, and wasn't, an attempt to bloody Stafford's nose.

Not having a go at all BTW; just letting you know some facts. I know there's a perceived simmering feud between the two camps, but if there ever was one, it was over a long time before Chaosium republished the RQ3 magic book.

Well, the facts as you perceive them. Ive listened to Charlie talk about day to day life at the Chaosium offices, and, (possibly because Greg wasnt present), he had a few words to say about not being informed about certain things, etc., all in the usual life of a small company under pressure. Do they hold a grudge? Probably not. Considering there was a certain amount of bad feeling when Keith Herber originally left, maybe they understand now that life is too short (Keiths was, anyway). Was there a certain amount of irritation at the time, yes, Im certain. Old wounds and all that. Anyway, youve been told the facts, youve sat in the same room as them, who am I to argue with your emprical knowledge?

Soltakss - Youre appraisal was interesting, I'd have to disagree slightly with your opinion of BRP. If Chaosium were a wealthy company, they would have released lots of supplements to flesh out the BRP system, and make it more specific in certain areas. They are pretty much tied to promoting Call of Cthulhu, however, which has been their saving grace, and also, their greatest frustration. I think theres only three or four permanents at the minute at Chaosium, they can only do so much. I maintain my lack of love for the monograph solution though.

This is anecdotal here, I freely admit to this not being 'proof', but I dont know anyone who plays MRQ 'as is', at least, not without quite heavy house ruling.

The one important aspect here, is that Chaosium, undoubtedly, have the better product. It wouldnt be an issue if MRQ was fixed, the comparisons to BRP would go away, and people like me would shut up. Theres the challenge. Its simple, make the next edition of Mongoose Runequest
work. Youve had a few chances, I would say that this is your last. Soltakss may say that he will buy everything, so have I, but constant revisions, mistakes, typos, 'printer trouble', rethinks, etc., will errode customer confidence eventually, and consign MRQ to history, maybe the company with it.

It IS simple though, just do a good job.

 

[zozotroll]

There is a track record of producing reprinted material for RQ/BRP games. RQ3 reprinted a lot of RQ2 material, albeit with a few changes. Chaosium produce a magic book that is virtually a copy of RQ3's magic book. HQ Trolls had a lot if things that were originally in RQ2/3 Troll supplements.

Did I buy them all? Yes, of course.

What does that tell you?
1. I have more money than sense (since I haven't much money, that shows how much sense I have)
2. I will buy pretty much everything that is Glorantha or RQ based
3. Game companies know this and target their products specifically at idiots like me

Is it reprehensible? Of course.

Will it stop? Of course not.

Do I really mind? Probably not, although RQ Cities was virtually a copy of the Cities pack, which galled a little bit, many years ago.

Do you know me that well?? Have you been spying on me?? My brother could not have peged me better.

 

[celmive]

Simple answer is Yes, I do like the MRQ System

I have picked up a few of the rulebooks and it works and works well.

I do not like the editing which is a bit sloppy but that is something I can live with.

I would like to see for this and ALL Mongoose RPGs a definitive Index to allow us to find where certain rules are. (RQ, Traveller, DW, Paranoia, Conan, etc)

How about it Mongoose ? Any chance ? I have edited a couple of games before so happy to work on this myself if you want to provide a copy of each book (Well, you gotta try !!! LOL)

 

[Loz]

Was there a certain amount of irritation at the time, yes, Im certain. Old wounds and all that. Anyway, youve been told the facts, youve sat in the same room as them, who am I to argue with your emprical knowledge?

Oh, there was irritation; you're quite right. But things have mellowed considerably, old friends are still old friends, and the recent re-release of the BRP Magic Book wasn't done to annoy Greg or make any grand gestures. Its not a question at all of my empirical knowledge: its a question of what the three of us got around to talking about one evening after, funnily enough, a discussion about MRQ.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Was there a certain amount of irritation at the time, yes, Im certain. Old wounds and all that. Anyway, youve been told the facts, youve sat in the same room as them, who am I to argue with your emprical knowledge?

Oh, there was irritation; you're quite right. But things have mellowed considerably, old friends are still old friends, and the recent re-release of the BRP Magic Book wasn't done to annoy Greg or make any grand gestures. Its not a question at all of my empirical knowledge: its a question of what the three of us got around to talking about one evening after, funnily enough, a discussion about MRQ.

I'd be interested to hear what they thought of MRQ. Did they offer advice? Praise?

 

[Loz]

I'd be interested to hear what they thought of MRQ. Did they offer advice? Praise?

It wasn't that sort of discussion. So I'm afraid there's not much more for me to say.

 

[ealdstan]

Hey all,

I started with Runequest back when it was still being published by Chaosium under Avalon Hill. I recently discovered MRQ. I bought a few of the books and I like them.

About the printing errors, I have noticed and I've actually made note of them. In fact, I sent the company a document listing the errors on the first nineteen pages of the Glorantha Second Age book. They wrote me back thanking me. Since then I finished going through the book. I offered to send them the rest of my notes for free but they never responded so I'm not going to waste my time typing them up if they're not wanted.

 

[Ssendam]

Of the changes to RQ, the only one which went horribly wrong was their reworking of rune magic. That's been mostly fixed.

FMI but was was wrong and how was it fixed?

(I've only just got my head around which combat style I like!)

 

[Deleriad]

Of the changes to RQ, the only one which went horribly wrong was their reworking of rune magic. That's been mostly fixed.

FMI but was was wrong and how was it fixed?

There were two probems.
The main one was that the rune magic was based on Glorantha but didn't actually work in Glorantha because no one knew how to deal with cults that had rune spells but didn't seem to have the runes to cast them with. This led most people to house rule some form of common magic skill for Glorantha. Conversely, the rune system didn't fit any known background except Glorantha so it was useless as a generic magic system.

The general issue was that the need for runes was so restrictive in comparison to the fairly minor effects of the magic, plus limited number of spells available that there was a real disincentive to actually create rune magicians.

Finally there was a flavour issue which put many long-term Gloranthaphiles off the physical runes. Flavour is always in the eye of the beholder but it's significant for quite a few. I don't personally like the way the runes are presented RAW because, to me, they end up as Pac Man power-ups.

The fix has been quite simple. Basically, it's been made possible to be able to rune-cast magic without having to have a physical rune and also for secret organisations to be able to attach non-standard spells to runes. Depending on your world background this means that physical runes can be either non-existent or bought down the local magi-mart at 2 for a tenner without messing up rune magic.