Do fabricators make "Real" or "Fake" things?
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Limpin Legin
Cosmic Mongoose
I think you are perhaps looking for "what makes something 'genuine' versus 'fake' ..."
"Real" means exists beyond the imagination. Like "you can get a 35% discount on all Jump-2 travels within the Spinward Marches." Begs the question, are they being real in such claims, or are they bluffing? (Here, there is no evidence to support reality or bluff, beyond the imagination.)
"Genuine", in context of the question, means made Original Manufacture. Not cloned.
"Fake" means imitated. Possibly illegal.
Both 'genuine' and 'fake' could be purely imaginary or they both could be 'real' - like, real enough to exists for people to exchange as goods or use or examine.
Such matters are of concern to the original genuine guys, as they could lose profit to the fakers. Governments usually like to support the genuine guys, as it gives there economy and morality more credibility.
"Real" means exists beyond the imagination. Like "you can get a 35% discount on all Jump-2 travels within the Spinward Marches." Begs the question, are they being real in such claims, or are they bluffing? (Here, there is no evidence to support reality or bluff, beyond the imagination.)
"Genuine", in context of the question, means made Original Manufacture. Not cloned.
"Fake" means imitated. Possibly illegal.
Both 'genuine' and 'fake' could be purely imaginary or they both could be 'real' - like, real enough to exists for people to exchange as goods or use or examine.
Such matters are of concern to the original genuine guys, as they could lose profit to the fakers. Governments usually like to support the genuine guys, as it gives there economy and morality more credibility.
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
My guess on future copy protection:
A genuine fabricated item is one that you have a license to use the template on.
A fake is a design that is bootlegged or pirated.
I could see a company building three dimensional crystal structures into the item based on a complex equation based on a cypher related to individual licenses that would show up on a scan. A proliferation of identical IDs would prompt the legal team(s) to start spamming cease and desist/lawsuits.
A genuine fabricated item is one that you have a license to use the template on.
A fake is a design that is bootlegged or pirated.
I could see a company building three dimensional crystal structures into the item based on a complex equation based on a cypher related to individual licenses that would show up on a scan. A proliferation of identical IDs would prompt the legal team(s) to start spamming cease and desist/lawsuits.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
According to experts, you can't fake genuine Swiss watch movements.
Though, reportedly, the Chinese really tried.
But I'd bet, being expensive enough, neither misses a beat.
Though, reportedly, the Chinese really tried.
But I'd bet, being expensive enough, neither misses a beat.
JustEastOfTheEdge
Cosmic Mongoose
fake: deliberately made to imitate something. It may or may not imply low quality or criminal intent. In the context of diamonds, this might be nasty cheap glass counterfeits, or cheap dress jewellery, or lab-grown diamonds that have the properties of natural diamonds to various extents.
real: authentic. In the context of diamonds, these are diamonds which were naturally formed, imperfections and all.
real: in the philosophical/existential sense, both fake and naturally occurring diamonds are real objects, but only the latter are real diamonds.
real: authentic. In the context of diamonds, these are diamonds which were naturally formed, imperfections and all.
real: in the philosophical/existential sense, both fake and naturally occurring diamonds are real objects, but only the latter are real diamonds.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
If you use something like a decontroctor to get the pattern, they'd be identical. If running from a different pattern, it depends on where that came from. It's only as authentic as the source data.
agentwigggles
Cosmic Mongoose
I would say, that it's immaterial
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
If it is the same, down to the molecular level, then there is no difference. The two items are identical and there is no way to tell them apart.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Exactly.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
You probably have to differentiate between what's supposedly original, what's a copy but has the same or better qualities, and what is presented as genuine, and may be of lower quality.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Low-Quality knockoffs will always be a thing, but they are not likely made with Fabricators. Too expensive to buy the Fabricator. If you are not licensed to build those items in your Fab, then if caught, the police steal your Fab and you are out millions, but probably walk on any actual jail time. Pay the fine, sacrifice your Fab, and move on. Less risk in using low wage labor, i.e. sweatshops. Since you are already a criminal, selling illegal knockoffs, it is not that big of a step to use cheap sophont labor. If the cops jail your workers, move locations and find more workers.
CordwainerFish
Emperor Mongoose
As long as they can convincingly fake authenticity, it's probably not important.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
There does seem to be that rule about antique cars.
As long as the replacement part is original, the car is still authentic.
I'm not sure if that means from the original batch, or production run.
As long as the replacement part is original, the car is still authentic.
I'm not sure if that means from the original batch, or production run.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
That is what people say who want to say the classic car they own is all original, when it does not have matching serial numbers. lol
Most serious collectors won't touch it though if the serial numbers on all of the parts do not match. A casual collector may though. You could use "counterfeit parts" though. Just get them Fabbed with a matching serial number.
If the client is none the wiser, then you are golden...lol...
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
Well, it would seem to me that at OTU TLs there wouldn't be much difference. There might be certain things that cannot be made [zuchai crystals for your J-drive, etc.], but most stuff would be bound by licensing issues. I'm certain that fabricating a long list of emergency life-or-death parts for a ship would be covered in the purchase price, but there would be an awful lot of stuff that wouldn't.
To quote an old Terran joke, a Vilani corpo weasel would demand payment for patent infringement every time you pee... or at least keep the issue tied up in court till your grandkids have kids.
But I'm sure there would be an automated system that allowed a one-time fabrication of a part.... and the system would bill your account the instant you got back to an inhabited world.
To quote an old Terran joke, a Vilani corpo weasel would demand payment for patent infringement every time you pee... or at least keep the issue tied up in court till your grandkids have kids.
But I'm sure there would be an automated system that allowed a one-time fabrication of a part.... and the system would bill your account the instant you got back to an inhabited world.
Limpin Legin
Cosmic Mongoose
Or you could use scannable QR codes "printed" on the fabricated items, to prevent fakes.
Or you could use Licencing Servers to provide access-tokens or keys, to prevent piracy and allow only the genuine fabricators to operate.
Or you could just make the fabricators utterly fool proof, and hence no need for game rules.
But, can the templates themselves be cloned or faked?
Or you could use Licencing Servers to provide access-tokens or keys, to prevent piracy and allow only the genuine fabricators to operate.
Or you could just make the fabricators utterly fool proof, and hence no need for game rules.
But, can the templates themselves be cloned or faked?
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
That’s why my robotics scientist NPC built his own fabber/ deconstructor. Deconstruct one of what he wants and print his own for eternity. Not for sale, of course. Just personal use.
He can design his own knockoffs. “Nice bot. I can make one similar and tweak it to my tastes, then sell that.”
This is somewhat a semantical question (at least as far as the fake vs. natural diamond question is) without a good answer. So long as the manufactured item has the same physical characteristics as the natural item, the question comes down to preference in ownership. Luxury items will always skew the answer since the desire to own something unique is a big driver in desire and price. For myself, I'm happy to own a print of the famous Water Lillies painting. I'm not willing to shell out $54 million USD to own the original. But the value is driven by desire (much like a diamond) rather than common sense.
Maybe a better example would be "fake" vs. "real" gold. If the "fake" gold was built up, atom by atom whereas the "real" gold was mined, smelted and purified, would the end user care that their gold object was manufactured at the atomic level or manufactured in nature? You'd have to ask the potential owner. If it were a ring or a statute, maybe someone would care. If the gold was used in a circuit in a computer, would anyone care?
In theory it is probably possible to insert at the atomic level some mechanism or method to indicate the item was built via a fabricator vs made the old fashioned way. At some point this may become meaningless - say technology like matter replicators are common place and (most) people give up the idea that owning something unique is special. At that point the question is mostly academic and limited to very few people.
Since Traveller posits a relatively similar culture, albeit one with magical technology using today as an example, I would say people in the 52nd century probably have the same views of ownership of items as we do today.
