Direct vs. indirect fire

Lorcan Nagle

Mongoose
there's a few people who mentioned they thought there was no point to firing indirect on the "should it stay or should it go" thread, and i figured that merited some discussion.

Personally, I like the indirect fire rules. I only really started using it after fighting Skinnie enemies on cover-heavy boards, where there's few opportunities to fire directly without setting yourself up for masses of firepower in return. even when it deviates, you tend towards catching a few enemies if you plot your fire well (aim for the edge of a squad and then declare short/long depending on which edge you aim for), and the fact that you do base damage to every target caught under the template helps a lot.
 
I use direct fire mostly because it's efficient and does not scatter. But if there is more LOS obscruting terrain on the table I can see using more indirect fire. So the rules do not have to change at all. Just add more terrain if you want more indirect fire to be used.
 
It's not the indirect rules per se but the silly ability to direct fire lethal zone weapons.
So you end up with a nuke not having a large nuke blast

People will always choose the direct fire option so they don't scatter and then get a silly number of dice to roll
 
emperorpenguin said:
It's not the indirect rules per se but the silly ability to direct fire lethal zone weapons.
So you end up with a nuke not having a large nuke blast

People will always choose the direct fire option so they don't scatter and then get a silly number of dice to roll

You're trading potential there really - a Pee-Wee that hits it mark on indirect fire (or is dropped via Sarissa/Flambergé) does 3D10+5 to all targets in AOE, as opposed to 15D10 split between the targets in a 6" radius. I'd probably not lib a pee-wee indirect just because it's a hell of a lot of points to lose if you do miss, but for firecrackers and firestorms it's a great option.
 
Lorcan Nagle said:
there's a few people who mentioned they thought there was no point to firing indirect on the "should it stay or should it go" thread, and i figured that merited some discussion.
.

I think the issue with indirect is the scatter table and having to cross reference what you roll each time you use it.
the other thing is the possiblity of bouncing back on you
I like the idea of it going ever over shooting or under shooting, but think that simply having 2 tables would make life easier
or
have 2 coloured dice one for over and one for under so in effect you choose odd or even
e.g. choose even , roll 2 die if the totals even it lands on target, if the total is odd then it goes up by one die and down by other
think something like this has already been posted anyway
 
I think getting rid of the option of indirect fire would be a dumb move. It doesn't hurt to have it in the rules regardless if only a few use it.

BTW, I've seen it used a lot.
 
Lt. BillyC said:
I think getting rid of the option of indirect fire would be a dumb move. It doesn't hurt to have it in the rules regardless if only a few use it.

BTW, I've seen it used a lot.

I don't think it should be dropped, rather I'd prefer to see the direct fire modes for such weapons removed
 
Emperor, just a thought, if you made certain weapons that currently have direct and indirect fire as options several things would have to happen, as I see it.
1. The points cost for the weapon losing indirect fire mode would need to be altered or reduced, as the weapon is now less useful.

2 Unit would need specific options to be able to equip with an indirect mode weapon at some reduced cost to be determined.

3. Units which are forced to have to chose (direct or indirect weapon)would need to cost less as a unit, because they would be much less flexible tactically, or the unit would need to have the possible number of those weapons available altered to maintain that flexibility ie. add one more special weapon option (3 instead of two) or possibly both.

4. create a number of new weapons and miniatures to represent them so you would have a direct fire Javelin and an indirect fire Javelin equivalent.

5. Some have proposed going to a special deviation die and allowing the shot to deviate in any direction (bad IMHO) this actually relects artillery usage pre Napoleonic Era as modern prectice is fire spotting shots call over under correct fire, then Fire for effect. Actual deviation in modern Artillery does tend to be euther long, short or on target. Lateral deviation is most commonly the Battery Officer making a mistake.

With the current system simply learn to do the Arithmetic as cited in the book and forget the chart. The chart will confuse you.

I haven't even looked for a while but Odds long, select point of impact each odd die thrown adds that many inches 5 (5") each even subtracts 6 (-6") total in example -1" toward firer.
Odd Short, odd numbers subtract, even numbers add (5,6) 1 inch long.
Odd Long, odd numbers add, even numbers subtract (5,6) 1 inch short.
Even Long, even numbers add, odd subtract (6,5) plus 1 inch.
Even short, even numbers subtract, odd add (6,5) minus 1 inch.
Doubles "always" HIT.

Should take most players five to ten minutes doing a few calculations to be able to forget that confusing table.

I just worked it out while writing this message. It is not a difficult concept.

If anyone is having difficulty, draw out a number line from -11 to +11 and chart a few dice throws on it. To give you confidence in your arithmetic look up the first dozen calculations on the chart to verify your results.

Problem solved.

As for not allowing indirect fire weapons to fire direct and hit, try boresighting a 155 Howitzer on a target too close to hit easily with indirect fire. A Beehive round at 150 to 300 meters is devastating and accurate. By the way that is why many artillery pieces bother to have actual sights on them. All indirect fire is done off Artillery Fire Tables with fire and correct.


Basically all of the above states my position for saying I think the current system works pretty well for a Game. Therefore it actually does not need to be tweaked or modified. :D :D
 
I often use indirect fire. . . the rules are simple enough. It is nice the the scatter pattern is only forward or backward. With long or short you can even choose the better for you.

I our games there are many pieces of terrain that make indirect fire a boon to a weapon.

Direct fíre hits the mark (and why should it not?), but is reduces damage. Flamberges and Sarissas alike can only attack in artillerie mode, this indirect fire. They only hit the impact point without deviation.
 
emperorpenguin said:
I just dislike the idea of a peewee nuke going off with reduced radius because you fire it direct! How does that happen!


Missed.jpg
 
didn't reduce the range now did it! that's how you don't get autokills from nukes in SST!

I just think direct fire is a cop out and with no morale is my only real gripe with SST.
 
Hey guys,
just bought the starter set 2 weeks ago. I had a few questions concerning what Lorcan said...

You're trading potential there really - a Pee-Wee that hits it mark on indirect fire (or is dropped via Sarissa/Flambergé) does 3D10+5 to all targets in AOE, as opposed to 15D10 split between the targets in a 6" radius. .

Question: Is the damage not 3xD10+5 rather than 3D10+5? The damage is significantly higher on 3D10 versus 3xD10. I imagine the answer was written in shorthand but I won't presume.

2nd Question (if I may) Firezones: If 5 PAMI (4 moritas + 1 flamer) fired on a 5 Warrior unit (same target), 8xD6 dice would be rolled for the moritas + a D10+2 for the flamer. Say 5 warriors got hit with the moritas (1 hit each) plus the flamer hit. How is the damage calculated for each bug: 2 saves (D6 and flamer) or 1 save (D6+D10+2 combined score).
Thanks for any help.
 
It's just the way it's written in SST 3xd10+5 is three results ranging from 2 to 15 (d10 +5 rolled three times). It's just shorthand, 3d10+5 gives arrange of 8 to 35.

Second one, you don't combine hits, each dice rolled is a separate 'hit' so two morita hits and a flamer hit on the same model give you d6, d6 and d10+2 you apply each separately as a discrete hit.
This means a model with a target of 7 is immune to morita hits... I like that in the game, after all if you were facing a modern tank with an M16, there's nothing you can do to hurt it, even if 20 of your mates shoot at the same time.
 
Thx for replying so quickly Jose, but I believe the main rulebook says differently on p.15 (example: 4D6 versus 4xD6).


(page 15 main rulebook) ...A number before a 'xD' tells you how many dice you need to role. Example:4xD6 means roll four six sided dice.... Where multiple dice of the same type are rolled AND added together it will be noted as the number of dice only, without the 'x' symbol - for example 2D6 (total 2 to 12).

Please correct me if I am wrong. Also, has the Ajax damage has been changed? In the main rulebook p.90, it says Ajax weapons are 3xD10+4 - not 3D10+4.

Thx again for clarification. Best regards, Psykreep
 
that's actually what I meant, I hadn't realised the first poster had missed out an X and I did the same :)
My rulebook says 3X d10+4 for the nuke, which makes sense, three results of 5 to 14 rather than one pointless result of 8 to 34.
 
use it in direct mode though.... that's 15 x d10+4 as the 5" radius becomes a multiplier. It won't deviate and it's got a 6" fire zone anyway, so you don't even lose on area effect. If you are taking out a screened brain/plasma, just soften up the warriors with moritas first (even a flinch is good) and remember once you've applied a single hit to all of the models in the zone, you can apply the rest where you want....
 
I tell ya Jose, you got me rereading the rules 4 times already. :shock:

I didn't know that direct LZ fire kept its damage bonus (indicated on p.39 main rulebook).
The damage bonus for lethal zone weapons fired directly applies to every damage die rolled as normal.

I was confusing it with direct stream fire (p.27)
When using direct fire mode, stream weapons roll a number of dice equal to their damage die multiplied by their damage bonus....but also forfeits their damage bonus to the damage dice rolls.

People, it pays to READ the rules thoroughly... :)

Got a second question: Can you fire a crewed weapon as a reaction? I know squad weps you can, pack you can't. I had a game yesterday where my Chickhawk was armed with twin .50 and Six Gun Rotary. I didn't know what to do so I fired just my (squad) Six Gun Rotary.

Thx for answering my MANY noob questions. Best regards, Psykreep
 
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