ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
Might be.CosmicGamer said:
Difficulty, Boon/Bane, and DMs
- Thread starter vladthemad
- Start date
TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
Besides the point.ShawnDriscoll said:
-Daniel- said:
Page 61
TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
The two aspects that are causing confusion - in my group at least - are stacking of Boon/Banes (or the lack thereof) and when 'hardwired DMs' are listed instead of using Boon/Bane. Both seem fairly arbitrary rulings.
In the former, the blanket 'only one Boon/Bane may apply' is awkward because it has no gradation. Multiple factors could apply and be at varying strengths. Players keep asking about whether conditions earn boon/bane, whether they stack and/or cancel each other out? If you introduce a rule like this, we should expect players to test it out - and referees aren't given much support to deal with this issue as it stands. As with the way DMs used to work, why not leave it up to the referee to justify how many boon/bane dice apply to any situation? Why stick with just one?
The counterargument is that the roll becomes almost redundant at the upper end of a Boon/Bane pool. I get that, but the same could be argued for high level DMs too. If we are arguing for Boon/Bane pools of five extra dice, say, then that is surely the equivalent of +/-10 DM (but without affecting the range). For me, the uppermost range that I could possibly envisage, in a practical sense, is actually more like three extra dice (equivalent to a +/-6 DM), and more likely to generally max out at just one or two (equivalent of +/- 2 or 4DMs respectively). One, two or three (extreme case!) boon/bane dice does not seem mathematically excessive to me - and the range stays the same regardless.
The latter issue is the killer though. If we are going with Boon/Bane then the various 'hardwired DMs' that are scattered throughout the book definitely still need to be looked at. Rather than listing a DM for bad weather, for example, then this should be edited to a Bane. As it stands, the Boon/Bane rules still lack clarity to me (and my group) because the game itself doesn't seem to have made up it's mind on its own rulings. It still needs work to be worth including in the core rules.
In the former, the blanket 'only one Boon/Bane may apply' is awkward because it has no gradation. Multiple factors could apply and be at varying strengths. Players keep asking about whether conditions earn boon/bane, whether they stack and/or cancel each other out? If you introduce a rule like this, we should expect players to test it out - and referees aren't given much support to deal with this issue as it stands. As with the way DMs used to work, why not leave it up to the referee to justify how many boon/bane dice apply to any situation? Why stick with just one?
The counterargument is that the roll becomes almost redundant at the upper end of a Boon/Bane pool. I get that, but the same could be argued for high level DMs too. If we are arguing for Boon/Bane pools of five extra dice, say, then that is surely the equivalent of +/-10 DM (but without affecting the range). For me, the uppermost range that I could possibly envisage, in a practical sense, is actually more like three extra dice (equivalent to a +/-6 DM), and more likely to generally max out at just one or two (equivalent of +/- 2 or 4DMs respectively). One, two or three (extreme case!) boon/bane dice does not seem mathematically excessive to me - and the range stays the same regardless.
The latter issue is the killer though. If we are going with Boon/Bane then the various 'hardwired DMs' that are scattered throughout the book definitely still need to be looked at. Rather than listing a DM for bad weather, for example, then this should be edited to a Bane. As it stands, the Boon/Bane rules still lack clarity to me (and my group) because the game itself doesn't seem to have made up it's mind on its own rulings. It still needs work to be worth including in the core rules.
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
I think perfect weather should be a Boon for all skill checks. Unless a Traveller is barefoot, because they only get the Boon if they are walking on sunshine.
-Daniel-
Emperor Mongoose
TrippyHippy, I think you have captured the one point 100%. My struggle is always around when should I use the bane/boon and when should a turn to the books to try and find the DMs. I read the entries and the threads and it seems clear, then in the middle of a combat it gets fuzzy again.
In the end I think, for me, it will always be a case of winging it once the action starts. Use DMs where they seem to fit and Bane/boon where it seems to fit. Do I want to change the probability without impacting the effect? B/B is the answer. If I want to change the possible effect them DMs it is. The one part that is clear to me is setting the target difficulty. That seems clear to me.
The other element you call for, the multiple bane or boon dice, well I admit I do not seem to have the same struggle you and your group seem to be having. I assume it is because my friends are all D&D 5th players and thus they do not "expect" or even look for more than one die. In the end though, I would not argue with your reasoning so much as say it just does not seem to apply to us.
In the end I think, for me, it will always be a case of winging it once the action starts. Use DMs where they seem to fit and Bane/boon where it seems to fit. Do I want to change the probability without impacting the effect? B/B is the answer. If I want to change the possible effect them DMs it is. The one part that is clear to me is setting the target difficulty. That seems clear to me.
The other element you call for, the multiple bane or boon dice, well I admit I do not seem to have the same struggle you and your group seem to be having. I assume it is because my friends are all D&D 5th players and thus they do not "expect" or even look for more than one die. In the end though, I would not argue with your reasoning so much as say it just does not seem to apply to us.
FallingPhoenix
Mongoose
ShawnDriscoll said:
And now I'm singing 80s music...
amerginsrd
Mongoose
It would definitely be helpful to have all those DMs scattered throughout the rules collected into a single chart.
TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
Well, my plan is to run a new Traveller campaign in the latter half of this year - probably the Pirates of Drinax, or maybe a Mindjammer one - but my plan with Boon/Bane is going to be houseruled a little.
My plan is to replace the Stat modifiers with Boon/Bane - so rather than having a scale of DMs, characters will compare their Stat scores against the difficulty score (2-12). If their score is equal or higher to the difficulty, then they get a Boon dice. If it is below, they get a Bane dice. Skills and other DMs will remain the same.
I'll let people know how it goes when I get there.
My plan is to replace the Stat modifiers with Boon/Bane - so rather than having a scale of DMs, characters will compare their Stat scores against the difficulty score (2-12). If their score is equal or higher to the difficulty, then they get a Boon dice. If it is below, they get a Bane dice. Skills and other DMs will remain the same.
I'll let people know how it goes when I get there.
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
How is a stat score figured out?TrippyHippy said:
TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
Through the standard character generation method. The Stats as in Characteristic scores - Strength, Dexterity, etc.
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
Ok. A DEX 2 character does BANE rolls and a DEX 12 character does BOON rolls mostly?TrippyHippy said:
TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
Yep. That's the plan - although most scores lie between the two extremes of course. The modifiers of the characteristics basically get replaced by variable Boon/Bane dice depending on the difficulty of the task.
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