Devil's Advocate Question on Psionics

[TrippyHippy]

Should it be in the Core Rules or the Companion?

I only say this in relation to the thread I started about Chapter Organisation, where Matt suggested that Psionics should be kept separate from Character generation as an optional thing. I know where he is coming from on that, but if this is the case then why include it it in the Core rules at all?

I could make the argument that playing a robot is as much a valid (exotic) player character option as playing a Psychic. Yet that has been entirely lifted out of the Equipment section presumably to be put together with comprehensive rules somewhere else. If you pull the Psionic chapter, could room be made to expand upon the Equipment chapter, or the Encounter chapter perhaps?

Just askin'. :wink:

 

[-Daniel-]

This depends on if you agree with Matt that Psionics is somehow not a core mechanic.

I would say that Matt needs to do what he needs to do and I will find and use the rules I want to regardless of where he elects to put them. Front, back, different book, what ever. I just think that he should use care in pulling things out to add into the Companion otherwise the companion becomes the rule book rather than the fun options book they seem to be setting it up to be.

In the spirit of disclosure, I have never understood nor agreed with the idea that the game has Psionics in it yet we claim they are not a part of the core rules. Heck they created a whole empire based on Psionics in humans. So I am clearly on the side they should not be treated as "Not Core". But I am also a fan of Mongoose and want to support Matt as so far, his overall vision has been well worth the ride.

 

[grauenwolf]

Psionics are in my "must keep" category. Reasons...

1. Characters may start as psionic. It is really unusual, but it can happen and you don't want a "ops, need to buy a supplement" in the character creation section of the core book.
2. This offers a wealth of information for creating unique characters for the players to encounter.
3. Fear. With the psionics in the core book, the players should always have this nagging worry that anyone they are dealing with might try to read their mind.

Even though I am not currently using psionics, just having it in there colors the way I write adventures.

****

Why not robots? While I would love to have robots in the core book, that's not something that you get by chance. Psionics just happen, while being a robot or human is question 1.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Someone wrote in a magazine 30+ years ago that someone at GDW was against psionics. And I guess that hearsay stuck over the years. If psionics are all that bad, why are they published at all in the rules I ask?

If Psionics was called The Force instead, you can bet they would be the first chapter of the rulebooks. But since they are called psionics (eewh!), they're not real magic powers (sci-fi is hard). Speaking of parallel universes, AD&D players were treating their perfectly good Psionics rules as non-fantasy (eewh, grose! non-magic powers are never allowed in our games!) and/or cheating. 1979 saw a growth spurt in mythical mass production. The RPG commandments basically in every game store, warts and all. Shop owners would go to GenCon and come back with rumors to spread to every shopper who said, "Gosh! You were at GenCon! Lucky!" Those future old-timers hung from every word of theirs and passed on that found knowledge to... well everyone within ear-shot of the Interwebs today. Thanks old-timers, for ruining the RPG past for us.

 

[TrippyHippy]

Why not robots? While I would love to have robots in the core book, that's not something that you get by chance. Psionics just happen, while being a robot or human is question 1.

Unless, of course you upload your consciousness into a new robotic 'sleeve' as occurs in lots of sci-fi fiction.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Unless, of course you upload your consciousness into a new robotic 'sleeve' as occurs in lots of sci-fi fiction.

That's kind of how Star Trek teleporters work. Anyone figure a way for those to work without killing people? Heaven forbid if the original is left alive after the transfer (cloning?).

 

[Cugel]

Definitely in the core rules, and I've already voted for moving the Psion career in with the other careers.

Since I also messed up the rule on "rolling to learn each Talent" I'd vote that Psionic Talents work the same way as other skills: when they're rolled by a player, you learn them, and not until. That way each Psion will be specialized, and you can safely stick the rules for how Psionic Talents work in the back of the book. I understand the heritage of "roll for each Talent upon gaining psionic ability", but maybe it's time to ditch that? Just a random thought. 8)

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Cugel, that might be harder to get everyone to swallow, since the idea of rolling for each talent (with the cumulative DM-1 per roll) has been around since the beginning. I was surprised to see that Telepathy is now automatic (if you pick it first, you don't have to roll, you just get it). THAT is new.

Psionics are either used heavily or completely ignored by people, so I doubt you will get agreement on any changes...

Personally, I don't like that you can roll a specific Talent in the Skill Tables. To me, is should say, "TALENT" and mean that you increase one of your talents by 1 level. Opens up a lot more Skill slots for a Psion too, so they can actually DO SOMETHING other than mental stuff.

 

[Cugel]

Cugel, that might be harder to get everyone to swallow, since the idea of rolling for each talent (with the cumulative DM-1 per roll) has been around since the beginning.

Yeah, I put that in the "That's crazy talk bin", no worries.

Personally, I don't like that you can roll a specific Talent in the Skill Tables. To me, is should say, "TALENT" and mean that you increase one of your talents by 1 level. Opens up a lot more Skill slots for a Psion too, so they can actually DO SOMETHING other than mental stuff.

Now this is a better idea: just list "Talent" in the skill tables, and allow the player to increase a Talent they already know or dice for learning a new one (that they'd previously failed). If this change is made I'd forego the "-1 per previous attempt", too (less to have to recall), especially since no other career calls for "roll to see which skill you might learn" (leaving aside Events).

 

[-Daniel-]

Personally, I don't like that you can roll a specific Talent in the Skill Tables. To me, is should say, "TALENT" and mean that you increase one of your talents by 1 level. Opens up a lot more Skill slots for a Psion too, so they can actually DO SOMETHING other than mental stuff.

Now this is a better idea: just list "Talent" in the skill tables, and allow the player to increase a Talent they already know or dice for learning a new one (that they'd previously failed). If this change is made I'd forego the "-1 per previous attempt", too (less to have to recall), especially since no other career calls for "roll to see which skill you might learn" (leaving aside Events).

This is quite an interesting thought process. Keeps it random to a degree but also feels more like the other careers. You improve what you know already over terms.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Should it be in the Core Rules or the Companion?

Good question.

And, sadly, the best answer I can muster is that it is in Core because that is always how we have done it...

 

[alex_greene]

Psi has been a part of Traveller since the beginning. It cannot be denied that even the most rational of hard SF authors, such as Isaac Asimov that arch-rationalist, featured telepathy in some of their stories. Sir Arthur C Clarke, Larry Niven, Harlan Ellison, even the likes of TV producers such as Gene Roddenberry, JMS, Verity Lambert included psionics. Judge Dredd introduced Psi-Corps early on, after mentioning that some of the crooks were using psions in the commission of crimes. Space: 1999 has had its share of telepathy, and it even crops up in Thunderbirds.

Psionics are pretty much integral to the traditional tropes and settings of science fiction, as much as spaceships, robots, aliens and rayguns. Psi is even the focus of some settings - the Second Foundation, the Awareness talent in the Legions of Moros of Douglas Hill's series of books, and the Psychology Service of James H Schmitz' Telzey Amberdon and Trigger Argee stories.

And last, but by no means least, I can't cite psionics in science fiction without bringing up the grandaddy of all Space Operas ... E E "Doc" Smith's Lensmen series.

Keep the psionics in the core rulebook. Taking out telepathy would be as bad as leaving out PGMPs, FGMPs and Battle Dress.