Determining Breaking Point

[costampede]

After a few games, I have noticed Tanks are very powerful (ie Challenger, M1A2).

Here is my suggestion.

Lets say you have 2 squads of Brit Infantry and a Challenger. Your breaking point will be 2 ( I have 8 Infantry and 1 tank = 9) now if a tank gets killed it only counts against you as 1 right now. But I am sorry, if I was infantry and I saw my tank support go up in flames, I would really evaluate the mission.

So my thoughts are everything counts as 1 for determining the breaking point, but when the game starts you still need to get to 2 to break and retreat out of the 9 total, but have tanks/vehicles count against you with thier size factor.

Ie. A tank gets destroyed so it counts as 4 dead so all your opponent has to do is kill 3 infantry to put you at the 2 mark for breaking.

 

[Mr Evil]

this is the thing if you take tanks your break point drops down alot every tank you take effectivly reduces your force by about 24 men wich effectivly means the tank drops your break down by about 6 men !!!

its a ballance take tanks and reduce break or leave out the tank and have a lack of anti tank for the brits.

all part of the fun realy

 

[costampede]

True Tanks cost more but thier MGs count as double for suppresing on infantry, but if you have your tank destroyed and all you have left are infantry, there is nothing you can do against your opponents Tank.
Your opponent will sit back with his tank and MG you to death until you give up.
If you have nothing to hurt the tank, why should your opponent risk engaging you with his infantry and loose the game when he has a tactical advantage.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[livingancestor]

Come on Tony. You don't need tanks to win. We saw that last night. The brave soldiers of the Peoples Republic will find a way to be victorious over the oppressive European regime every time.

 

[127th Angry Angels]

This will shift as more units come out. The more options there are in the future the less this will matter. Also there have to be disadvantages to playing a side or they all play the same.

just some thoughts,

 

[Paladin]

I've said it before, and will say it again.

I believe vehicles should count as 1 point per size. Simple and effective balance without changing anything about the cards.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Tanks do have a major impact on the shatter point though - if your enemy's taken tanks and you've gone infantry heavy, it means that you can afford a much higher casualty rate while going after his infantry - and he won't be able to absorb many losses.

A quick comparison, you can field 6 basic squads of EFTF infantry in 1,000 points, or a challenger and 3 squads. the 6 squads have a break point of 12 - they can absorb 36 casualties. The 3 squads and tank have a break point of 7, they can only take 18 casualties.

 

[Turtle]

Not to mention that tanks can be killed in one shot, which is a much higher loss of points than with infantry.

 

[Mongoose Alex]

Check out the battle report in next months Signs & Portents. An EFTF force with a shatter point of 9 up against a USMC force with a shatter point of 6.

The difference in shatter points meant that the two players approached and played the game in very different ways.

 

[Paladin]

Check out the battle report in next months Signs & Portents. An EFTF force with a shatter point of 9 up against a USMC force with a shatter point of 6.

The difference in shatter points meant that the two players approached and played the game in very different ways.

And was that realistic or just startegic fun.

 

[Mr Evil]

i see where your comming from paladin, but look at it like this

to purchase a tank you loose 16 men probably more to get the tank into your list, so when a tank goese bang its effectivly like losing 16 figures in one hit !!!!! so in way a tank is worth more kills as far as shatter points are considered.

also if a tank was worth 4 for shatter points if the army consisted of 12 for determining break point to be 3 and you had no anti tank, due to the tank being worth 4 there is no way you could win against it. if that makes sence.

the sytem works realy well, the more you play it the more sence it makes.

the disadvantage of tanks is it drops your break point down by reducing amount of figures you field, you can beat your enemy just by ignoring the tank.

 

[tneva82]

If you have nothing to hurt the tank, why should your opponent risk engaging you with his infantry and loose the game when he has a tactical advantage.

Problem with pretty much any game and one which applies only in small games and in early times...As more waves are released and people can field bigger armies(say 2000 pts) problem vanishes like thin air.

 

[Turtle]

Best not to concern yourself too much with realism, not only is the game heavily abstracted, it's also very game oriented.

The good news is if you're looking for realism, there's a lot of modern combat rules out there that'll support minis of all sorts. I'm actually interested now in trying some of the better modern rules using the BFE minis as I effectively have an army that can be used in a variety. So any time I feel like a more detailed game

Not to mention it's likely the shatter rule will be replaced in some, or most scenarios with more scenario specific objectives. However, I am concerned a bit by this as well, as I hope the advanced rules have a lot more different objectives and not so much use of the shatter rule.

Still, the shatter rule makes the game oriented on action and killing the enemy.

I admit that I can't find too many reasons why tanks should count for more, but who knows. If they made the tanks count for more, they'd have to do something like make the tank kill scores higher in the front armor, or anything to make them more surviveable (thus more likely to be killed by whittling away hit points than killshots).

 

[MongooseMatt]

Not to mention it's likely the shatter rule will be replaced in some, or most scenarios with more scenario specific objectives. However, I am concerned a bit by this as well, as I hope the advanced rules have a lot more different objectives and not so much use of the shatter rule.

The advanced rulebook scenarios generally rely on either win/lose objectives, or victory points.

 

[Paladin]

also if a tank was worth 4 for shatter points if the army consisted of 12 for determining break point to be 3 and you had no anti tank, due to the tank being worth 4 there is no way you could win against it. if that makes sence.

Right, but unless you are playing a demo that small of a force will not be common place.

A better example would be tanking 3 tanks. By default you can never drop below 1/3 of your points. :wink:

Though without superior firepower in their face why should they retreat?

Just playing devil's advocate. :twisted: I didn't like it at first, but overall I like concept of the shatter point rule.