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Anonymous
Guest
That was me.
Anonymous said:
I don't know about you, but when I'm plotting out a campaign, I don't spend too much time thinking about which classes I want played and which I don't, but if someone comes to me with something I don't want played, I usually say so at that point. I'm pretty sure that's where he's coming from.
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Anonymous
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DuskFox said:
Thats where we differ, because I always see what classes will fit any given game I might be running and what might not. Call me draconic, but if I am running a game after 5050 and adhering to canon, then I might take into consideration that it might not be a good idea to allow the kai class, since lone wolf is the only kai running around then.
Alos, I prefer to give out all needed information beforehand, rather than just fling it out in the midst of a game, when possible. Again, maybe thats a bit too much planning ahead for your taste, but to each his own.
Xex said:
I tend to have a general idea for what I will and won't allow, but when we're in the "figuring out a class" phase, there's not a lot to tell--I try not to push people too hard except maybe to say "no chaotic evil characters" or "I don't want any half-orcs" or something. It's when someone proposes a character concept to me that I really have to think on it, and decide whether or not I can work it in to what I have planned. Of course, I tend to do the character building stuff way before actually playing the game, as it gives me time to build a world around the group. That's just sort of how I roll, and I admit that it's probably not standard.
Balgin Stondraeg
Mongoose
The only bad example I've ever seen of this was in an AD&D campaign. My magician had just attained a lofty new level (he now had 3 of them) and chose to learn te Detect Invisibility spell.
The GM instantly informed me that I was perfectly allowed to do that but that there would be no point as there were no invisibility spells in this campaign and only a few creatures would have it as a natural ability (that could not be detected by the spell anyway).
The Gm then consistantly threw things like that at us to hampre us and try and force us to play a combat heavy party of idiots (whilst we actualy roleplayed and had fun, despite the naff GM).
The campaign didn't last long, all the players were in aggreement that we had a hostile GM. We (the players) all still play together and have a great time.
My point is that the gm would only disallow stuff as soon as we actualy mentioned wanting to do it. If we kept such plans secret we would then be told "but you never mentioned this before and I would've told you it wouldn't work". I'm afraid the GM did seem to want to force us down linear playstation style console platform game storylines whilst still expecting us to be able to enjoy roleplaying.
Well we enjoyed roleplaying (and resisted being forced, much to the GM's eternal frustration
).
The GM instantly informed me that I was perfectly allowed to do that but that there would be no point as there were no invisibility spells in this campaign and only a few creatures would have it as a natural ability (that could not be detected by the spell anyway).
The Gm then consistantly threw things like that at us to hampre us and try and force us to play a combat heavy party of idiots (whilst we actualy roleplayed and had fun, despite the naff GM).
The campaign didn't last long, all the players were in aggreement that we had a hostile GM. We (the players) all still play together and have a great time.
My point is that the gm would only disallow stuff as soon as we actualy mentioned wanting to do it. If we kept such plans secret we would then be told "but you never mentioned this before and I would've told you it wouldn't work". I'm afraid the GM did seem to want to force us down linear playstation style console platform game storylines whilst still expecting us to be able to enjoy roleplaying.
Well we enjoyed roleplaying (and resisted being forced, much to the GM's eternal frustration
).
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Anonymous
Guest
Balgin Stondraeg said:The only bad example I've ever seen of this was in an AD&D campaign. My magician had just attained a lofty new level (he now had 3 of them) and chose to learn te Detect Invisibility spell.
The GM instantly informed me that I was perfectly allowed to do that but that there would be no point as there were no invisibility spells in this campaign and only a few creatures would have it as a natural ability (that could not be detected by the spell anyway).
The Gm then consistantly threw things like that at us to hampre us and try and force us to play a combat heavy party of idiots (whilst we actualy roleplayed and had fun, despite the naff GM).
The campaign didn't last long, all the players were in aggreement that we had a hostile GM. We (the players) all still play together and have a great time.
My point is that the gm would only disallow stuff as soon as we actualy mentioned wanting to do it. If we kept such plans secret we would then be told "but you never mentioned this before and I would've told you it wouldn't work". I'm afraid the GM did seem to want to force us down linear playstation style console platform game storylines whilst still expecting us to be able to enjoy roleplaying.
Well we enjoyed roleplaying (and resisted being forced, much to the GM's eternal frustration
That is indeed forcing things, and results in a poor experience for all. Sometimes it cannot be avoided, and thats usually fine and no one really minds (for instance the brotherhood wizards level 10 ability, attaining an airship would not always be a feasible option; but by talking to the player its easily possible to work something out such as delaying it, offering alternatives, etc etc), but all the time or most of the time even, becomes annoying.
In a nutshell, its usually better to shift the world around the players without them always knowing about it, rather than forcing the players to bend to invisible rules within the world that are not only balatantly obvious ("no...you can't have that spell. Yes, I know that spell is the basis for the entire concept of your character and something you have been builind up to for the last 10 years we have been playing...but I just came to the conclusion its not going to work...because i saw someone on the internet say that spell is too powerful...when used on the first tuesday of every millenuim... " :!: ) but also limit their ability to enjoy their characters.
Balgin Stondraeg
Mongoose
Yep, someone really hated the idea of someone using magick to know things rather than blow stuff up (and unfortunately it was the naff GM). Don't worry, the other players had a pretty hard time (whenever we came up with anything that was even remotely creative the GM ruled it out instantly because they hadn't thought of it already and worked out ways to make it difficult for us).
Even then we still managed to do a lot of very creative stuff and blag our way past hostile npc's (not to mention using half sized party members as cover to hide behind in combat situations
). Yes, an almost full sized party member ducked behind the gnome for cover from the rather nasty monster (and later proved that a two handed spellbook is a rather effective weapon against crawling pests).
Even then we still managed to do a lot of very creative stuff and blag our way past hostile npc's (not to mention using half sized party members as cover to hide behind in combat situations
). Yes, an almost full sized party member ducked behind the gnome for cover from the rather nasty monster (and later proved that a two handed spellbook is a rather effective weapon against crawling pests).Balgin Stondraeg
Mongoose
The Wolf said:
Oh don't worry, I was playing the nearest thing to a pacifistic philosopher that that campaign had ever seen. We had my scholar, the gnomish druid, the samurai and the gender challenged identity crisis thief.
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Anonymous
Guest
Then you should be thankful the gnome druid, whome you hid behind, did not shapeshift into a snail or something. :shock: 8)
Balgin Stondraeg
Mongoose
Xex said:
Well since the gm never gave us any xp and eventualy grudgingly allowed us to get to 2nd and eventualy even to 3rd level there wasn't much chance of that. We were all 1st level (or possibly early 2nd) at the time of my character's shameful behaviour
.
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Anonymous
Guest
I know I would be pretty upset if my Gm handed me the books and said, "make a character". I would skim through each class and finally decide on the Shianti. By now, I have a cool mental image of my character and his abilities and am ready to roll stats when I tell the Gm which class I picked. "Um, actually those characters are too tough as they stand so if you want to be that you will need to be 2 levels less than the other players (who, by the way, are also making 1st level characters so I dont know how that would work)." That would burn me up and I doubt I would feel much like choosing one of the classes I had already passed on earlier.
When I make adventures as Gm I like to know beforehand what classes the characters are picking and I mold the adventures around them.
When I make adventures as Gm I like to know beforehand what classes the characters are picking and I mold the adventures around them.
No fricking way I'm gonna let a Shianti sorcerer PC get into my campaign.
Given Dessi mages are WAY much more powerful than other classes (i.e. from Level 3 and up), and given Shianti sorcerers are much more powerful than Dessi mages, they would just unbalance the game.
For me Shianti sorcerer is rather like a prestige class for Dessi mages: once they've attained level 20, they can try and study Greater Elder Arts...
Given Dessi mages are WAY much more powerful than other classes (i.e. from Level 3 and up), and given Shianti sorcerers are much more powerful than Dessi mages, they would just unbalance the game.
For me Shianti sorcerer is rather like a prestige class for Dessi mages: once they've attained level 20, they can try and study Greater Elder Arts...
cornichon said:
The dessi are not WAY more powerful than anyone...(well except the sage of lyris ..but then, who isn't. :lol: ) At least playtest the classes before leaping to uninformed conclusions.
The most powerful classes in the main rulebook are the kailord and the brotherhood wizard. Obviously, this does not hold true at the beginning few levels, but at levels 5+ these classes start leaving all esle behind.
The telchos warrior is also really powerful if built right, since many of her abilities STACK. If she has enough endurance and is of a certain level, the telchoi can overwhelm anything short of a darklord for a few combat rounds (and a few rounds should be all thats needed at that point)
As for the dessi, their wizards staff is powerful, true, but in later levels its power begins to pale before the brotherhood spells (which by the way can also do critcial hits). Also, the willpower drain of the staff is very high; you can blow through your willpower way way before the brotherhood wizard gets near to draining all his endurance. And without willpower the dessi, as well as the shainti, are powerless.
They are 'helpless' because non of their abilities function. Not only that but they take a further penalty to their actions, and since without willpower they can only attack in melee at their normal bab(which is pretty pathetic) , with the penalty they cannot hit the proverbial side of the wall.
The brotherhood wizards loose endurance at a much lower rate than the dessi lose willpower. Also, the brotherhood wizads have the counterspell ability, whichc means they can usually nullify most things the dessi throws at them.
As for the potions, thats very debatable. The ability is extremely open to narrator and player interpretation; how powerful it is is simply how powerful the narrator allows it to be.
The brotherhood wizards loose endurance at a much lower rate than the dessi lose willpower. Also, the brotherhood wizads have the counterspell ability, whichc means they can usually nullify most things the dessi throws at them.
As for the potions, thats very debatable. The ability is extremely open to narrator and player interpretation; how powerful it is is simply how powerful the narrator allows it to be.
Xex said:
Dessie have way more willpower than a BCS has health.
Dessie still has more BAB and HitPoints than the Brotherhood mage has (on average obviously.) I think you would be very hard pressed to lose to a BCS, one on one, at any game level tbh.
Counterspell is nice, but is not automatic, dosen't work on psychic combat, and dosent stop the dessi simply beating the snot out of the BCS which he can quite clearly do. Its alright saying there BAB is pretty pathetic, but its the same as or higher than most classes, even with the penalty for being out of willpower, (and for the record i have never seen a dessi player spend there last willpower point yet!) its still probably going to be better than the BCS.
And i dont think that Potions are that debatable at all tbh, there very clearly defined in what they do. And some of what they can do is increably helpful, regaining willpower, Regaining Endurnace and boosting stats, All none counterable, all work even on 0 willpower.
Xex said:
I resent that remark.
If you had read my earlier messages, you would have known that I did more than playtest the game, and that the Dessi Mage overpowered the other character classes (Kai Lord, Sommlending Knight, Bor Gunner).
Xex said:
Without Willpower, the Dessi Mage is still alive.
Without Endurance, the Brother of the Crystal Star is just plain dead.
At least read the Endurance rules "before leaping to uninformed conclusions".
Two words: "Willpower sharing".
Xex said:
The same can be said of almost all Dessi abilities. They are not as tightly defined as most of the abilities for other classes, and therein lies their power.
Now, I have a question:
Dessi mages can throw energy bolts by focusing willpower through their Wizard's Staff. What is the range of these bolts?
