Darkstorm's Conan Chronology

Mayapan didn't exist during the Thurian Age, the Khari are most likely from Mu. They most likely have dark brown skin since the Khari/Stygians are usually called "dusky-skinned" by Howard.

I wouldn’t be so sure. As you mention yourself in one of your musings, the Khari (from Khitai to Acheron) were given to the building of “purple towers,” whereas the people of Mu were given to the use of “crimson walls” (though as I admit earlier I am unsure of your derivation of this from EONS, and submit that it was the Muvian race that built the green-walled cities). “Dusky-skinned” was applied to many races in Howard’s writings, from the typically swarthy Zamorians, to the Stygians, and even to the ostensibly black peoples of Kush and the southern kingdoms.

Howard himself mentions four primary human races of his world concept in THE MOON OF SKULLS: black, brown, red, and white; we can postulate a fifth, yellow race, a people ranging from the Shemites in the west to the Khitain in the east (which the old man of SKULLS may never well have dealt with or heard of, the “pure” yellow peoples not having reached the Valusian west, let alone the Nyumbani coast, at the time of Atlantis). But the original Lemurians of old were brown skinned; they are the primordial modern human race of Howard, and were so since the time of the Dragon Kings of Lemuria 500,000 years ago (though again, you may cringe at that Carter reference, it all works).

From Lemuria modern humans spread out to the other continents. The yellow race (as I will note later) emerged in central Thuria, and spread there east and west; the westerners becoming the ancestors of the Shemites and (partially) the Valusians, the nameless easterners being the *first* slave race of the Khari of Kull’s time (for someone had to serve the Khari, no?) The Khari themselves came from a land far to the east of even Lemuria “They apparently came from a shadowy and nameless continent lying somewhere *east* of the Lemurian Islands.” And that nameless and shadowy continent would be Mayapan, where the red race of man arose. “Red” being “red” as in the “red” of various native American tribes, more a dusky brownish-yellow or leather-orange, distinct from the white, black, and brown races most certainly, and offset from yellow definitely, which was native to Thuria. While Mayapan was mostly underwater in the time of Kull (shades of Machu Picchu, anyone?) At the time of Conan, actually, Mayapan may very well exist, as mentioned in the Pictish migration outlined in MEN OF THE SHADOWS, thrust up again from the waters of the ocean by the Cataclysm. The “ape-men” they encountered on that southern continent being the bestial descendants of the red race (regressed even as the Atlanteans on Thuria regressed), though their tales of driving them across the Atlantic to Africa seem a bit far fetched (if they are ape-men, how can they get to the new islands... swim?)

Here’s my rundown of the five primary macro-races of Man (according to my interpretation of Howard and related sources) and the times and places of their origin. This is all within the milieu of the world of Kull/Conan/Kane et al, not a real world evaluation of what really happened. Note that I use various racial terms from a semi-scholarly standpoint; no values, ethical, moral, political, or otherwise, is here expressed. Unfortunately, for many peoples mentioned, a non-loaded, baggage free word has not been coined for their ethnic/racial group.

Brown: Originated on Elder Lemuria, ca. 500,000 BCE. Derived from proto-human (homo habilis/homo erectus stock) by being “created” by the gods/uplifted by the gods/experimented on by the Serpent People/or just plain through evolution. Spread from Lemuria first to Mayapan and the Pictish Isles, as Valusia was still mostly the domain of non-human and pre-human races. The Picts were a brown race, as were the Atlanteans. Spread to Thuria in largish colonies after the sinking of Elder Lemuria ca. 300,000 BCE, where most were enslaved by various pre- and non-human kingdoms (Serpent People, Giant King, and etc.).

At the time of Kull (ca. 24,000 to 18,000 BCE) the western Valusian peoples were a mix of the western yellow and brown races, along with a smattering of native-grown archaic human tribes descended from h. erectus, plus a dash of ancient Eldest Hyperboreans (most notably in the bloodlines of Thule). H. hyperboreanus was a pre-human hominid race which lived in ancient Greenland from 1,000,000 to 750,000 BCE, whose remnants were scattered here and there across Thuria. Their genes were the origin of the Thurian Blondes (blonde being a true characteristic of the white race), and a major factor in the bloodline of the people of Thule. Strong sorcerous powers were indicative of H. hyperboreanus genes. The Eastern Grondarians and Elder Cushites had strong brown bloodlines, confining the pure yellow race of the central lands to the desert valley at the center of the continent (where later stood the Vilayet Sea). To the east, the brown race had been subsumed or extirpated by early-migrating groups of the eastern yellow race, who were themselves later conquered and enslaved by the Khari from Mayapan.

In the time of Conan the brown race was best epitomized in the Cimmerians (via the Atlantean line), the Picts, the Himelians (via the Grondar line), the Hyborians (who were descended primarily from non-Valusian brown tribes of the west mixed with some Thule clans, Howard’s claims of neanderthals evolving in isolation into modern humans in 5,000 years notwithstanding), the Hyrkanians (via the Lemurian bloodline of Khitai), Vendhyans (a mix of Grondar and Muvian blood, mostly), and the Zingarans (whose core constituent race was the relatively “pure” brown/yellow remnants of the people of Farsun). Bossonians and Gundermen had strong strains Elder Hyperborean blood.

In historical and modern times brown race descendants include Sumerians and Canaanites (both with a strong bloodline from the western yellow peoples, i.e., Shemite), Picts, Celts, Latins and Greeks (whites with a strong underpinning of Hyborian and Cimmerian blood), Georgians, Basques (directly from Zingarans), Polynesians and other Pacific Island groups, as well as many (though not all) Amerind groups, plus a strong bloodline (well mixed with that of the Khitain) throughout eastern Asia, from Mongolia in the north to Viet Nam in the south, from the Pacific to the Caspian. Naturally, however, everyone is really a member of the brown race after a fashion!

Red: Originated on Mayapan, ca. 300,000 BCE. Emerged from brown stock differentiated by thousands of years of isolation. Migrated to eastern Thuria no later than 40,000 BCE, where, known as the Elder Khari, they settled in the region of Khitai and enslaved the native yellow peoples. Homelands decimated during the Cataclysm, those left on Mayapan reverted to a primitive state and were extirpated or assimilated by migrating Picts, which spread the red bloodline north. Modern bloodlines include various groups among Egyptians, Berbers, Cushites, and Nilo-Saharans, with some bloodlines (strong and weak, as have emerged and submerged over the millennia) remaining among various Amerind groups. The Khari built purple-towered cities.

Yellow: Originated in central Thuria ca. 50,000 BCE. Emerged from isolated Lemurians during a long dark age wherein contact was lost with other peoples. Spread west and east. Those to the east were conquered by the Khari, who later merged them solidly with brown raced Lemurian slaves, from which emerged the singular Khitain race. To the east the yellow race originally mingled with the local brown Lemurian peoples to form the Valusian race. At the time of Kull an isolated population remained in the central lands of Thuria, dominated by the Grondar and Elder Cushites (the first Valusian/Lemurian, the second Lemurian/Muvian); these are the ancestors of the Shemites. The Iranistani were a yellow race, liberally mixed with Elder Cushites (a black/Muvian people) and far-wandering whites (later in the period). The Khitain build towers of purple like their ancient Khari masters, whereas the western Shemites build zikkurats covered in pure white or a riot of colors. Khitain bloodlines remain strong throughout eastern Asia and the western Pacific islands, even into the American Pacific Northwest. Shemites are the ancestors of the modern Semites, and mixed with Khari, Picts, and others ancestors of the Berbers and Cushites. Iranistani bloodlines are found among the Cushites, early Caucasian peoples (and their descendants, such as the Kurds), Scyths, and of course, Iranians.

Black: Originated in Kaa-u, ca. 35,000 BCE. Derived from a merging of the brown and yellow modern races of Ma, mixed with native isolates and a strong influx of blood from the Mu isolate. In Kull’s time, the peoples of Nyumbani. In Conan’s time, the peoples of Kush, Punt, Kesh, and the Black Kingdoms. Modern descendants include the Negroes of western Africa and the Bantus of southern and eastern Africa (their “purest” descendants), as well as Berbers, Cushites, and Nilo-Saharans, and Pygmies.

White: Originated in Nordheim, ca. 12,500 BCE. Emerged from a mix of the natives of Thule (bloodlines heavy with H. hyperboreanus influence) mixed with local H. neanderthalensis (the “ferocious snow apes” of the Hyborian Age), and no few Hyborian (brown) bloodlines, from raids and intermarriage. The Aesir, Vanir, and Hyperboreans of Conan’s time were of the white, or Nordic race. Their most direct modern descendants include the Scandinavians, Germans, and English; their bloodlines were strong among the Latins, Greeks, and Celts, less so the Berbers, Scyths, and Iranians, and dwindled out to the Aryans of India, the Canaanites of the Levant (most prominently among the Phoenicians), and Egypt. The last due to the migrations and invasions of the Hittite and Achaean branches, which were strongly mixed with Hyborean bloodlines (and in the case of the Achaeans, gave rise to the Philistines). Some slight influence on the early Egyptian race, due to the early dominance of a far-wandering Vanir tribe and limited intermarriage/concubinage with Hittites (though that line is long-since extinct it survived in highly diluted form through to the time of the Ptolemies.)

Isolates: Isolates are archaic modern h. sapiens races that emerged side-wise from the primordial Lemurian brown race or from a closely related group of homo erectus; they are genetically undifferentiated from other modern humans. The only prominent isolate that is of interest in Kull’s time is the race of Mu, from which the modern Aborigines of Australia descend. The people of Mu (the “Muvians”) of the time of Kull are a mighty, technologically advanced, if savage warrior race. They are very dark skinned, similar to the black race, but have a very different physical build and singular hair patterns; their slitted eyes (distinct from the Khitain epicanthic fold) are amber colored. Their facial features and cranial structures are also significantly different from other modern human races, with heavy brow ridges and an overall heavier bone structure. This, however, is rarely noted, as the people of Mu practice cranial deformation in all its forms, from hyperconic to full horizontal, meaning at adulthood no two Muvians have the same cranial structure. Elder Muvians colonized southern Thuria millennia before Kull’s time, mixing heavily with the locals and eventually giving rise to the modern black race of Man (ca. 45,000 through 35,000 BC), as well as having strong influence on the Elder Cushites and the Grondarians. Later colonies were settled shortly before and after the Cataclysm. Though in ancient times Elder Mu was renown for red and silver walls, the Mu of Kull’s time built their cities of green jade. The Australian Aborigines are the most direct modern descendant group of the Muvians. Khoisan (Bushmen) are a modern sub-isolate of the earlier Mu isolate, though there are groups which possess heavy black (Negro, specifically Bantu) bloodlines (the Khoikhoi for example). Various so-called “Negrito” peoples, from South America to the Malay Peninsula and the Andaman Islands, are descended from the far-flung Muvians; their colonists also left no few bloodlines among the modern Polynesians and other Pacific islanders. Note that Mu being Australia solves the “Lemuria of the East” question: from Kull’s perspective, Lemuria proper would have been identified as “Lemuria of the West,” not “Lemuria of the East,” as Kull was from Atlantis, and the next true continent to the west (to his knowledge) would be Lemuria proper. Mu would be the “Lemuria of the East,” which fits in well with your estimation of where the green-stones cities came from. My notation of the Muvians colonizing southern Thuria fits in with the pre-cataclysmic distribution of green cities, and the distribution of the Muvian descended races, without having to suppose a major Lemurian proper colony all the way from Hawaii.

A minor isolate race from Kull’s time which came into some prominence in Conan’s day were the Zhemri/Zamorians, a swarthy people who lived in the twilight regions of both eastern and western Thuria. They claim to have been descended from the first native human race to inhabit Thuria, and for all the sages know, they may be right. When and exactly where the race arose is unknown. The bloodline survives today as a substrate of the Slavic peoples (mixed heavily with Nordic, Cimmerian, and Hyborian blood) and the Gypsies, a mix of ancient Zamorians and Zingarans.
 
I've read and enjoyed a lot of Dale's work, and it's interesting that Kurt Busiek is generally following his timeline in the Conan comic. This is one of the most interesting threads here, and I'd join in if I was better informed.
 
Darkstorm said:
To Michael430

I'm not sure how much credence I'd give to the 100,000 year dating. If I recall, Gonar the Pict claimed that was how long ago Kull and Brule lived. In the world of oral traditions, that could simpley be Howard-speak for "a long, long time ago".

"The Hyborian Age" essay tells us that either four and a half thousand or five and a half thousand years (depending on how you interpret it) has passed between the Great Cataclysm and the birth of Conan. There is no way you can place the Hyborian Age in 94,000 BC and have the end of the essay make any sense at all.

A careful reading of "The Hyborian Age" shows that the era existed just as the last Ice Age was getting underway. That would make it circa 33,000 BC. Interestingly enough, recent genetic studies seem to indicate that there was a "bottleneck" in prehistory when most of the human race died off due to some sort of cataclysm about 40,000 years ago. So we have an actual "Great Cataclysm" about 38,000 BC and five thousand years later the most recent Ice Age begins.

Sounds like serendipity to me...

Did you take a look at the post below?

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8399&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
 
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