So my copy of Cybernetics arrived today. I've skimmed it, doesn't add anything new to the genre, pretty standard stuff, however I'm a big fan of cyberpunk and have to say that while it doesn't break any new ground it does add an element to Traveller that I've always thought was missing, on the whole it was worth the money.
Cybernetics
- Thread starter Jericho
- Start date
alex_greene
Guest
Bear in mind that they never had cyber in CT, this book breaks new ground for the game.
Any cyberpunk-style hacking rules, decks and stuff like that, or do we go back to Scoundrel for that?
Any cyberpunk-style hacking rules, decks and stuff like that, or do we go back to Scoundrel for that?
far-trader
Mongoose
alex_greene said:
If I disagree I guess that makes me seriously old school
I was ready for cybernetics in CT even before Supplement 8 - Robots came out. I had to revise slightly when it did. And I have a vague recollection (or I'm conflating my own notes) that S8 did mention cybernetic applications of robotic rules.As for breaking new ground, not really, while CT might not have had it (not in the main rules, but in some product I'm all but certain) later versions certainly did. TNE in the main rules iirc. And I think even before that MT had it in the main rules.
Let me ask, are you all calling only "Six Million Credit Solomani" type superhuman (and physics breaking) enhancements cybernetics? And is that how the MgT Cybernetics book treats the subject? Or is it the more realistic and reasonable functional replacement (with perhaps a slight side of enhancement offset by the obvious downsides) bionics?
I ask because even with the cybernetics rules I had in place it was always more a bit of colour for the characters background, along the lines of...
"Yeah, I lost the arm in the Fifth Frontier War and the Navy gave me this piece of plastic (demonstrates his cybernectic arm). It works ok, and I can even smuggle a little spice in the hollow here, but it limits my mobility."
It was never something anyone would go out of their way or spend huge amounts of credits to acquire, nothing like...
"Yeah, I had to scour 3 systems before I found a place that could replace my arm. Cost me plenty I can tell you, but it was worth it! Now I can lift over 1000kgs over my head without breaking a sweat, crush high strength metals, and deflect bullets. And it has a built in intelligent computer link and a phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range."
Loz
Mongoose
Cybernetics tries to balance the realism and the MGF aspects. You can get cyberlimbs that improve your physical characteristics, but they're (generally) expensive and limited by TL. Cybernetics are also subject to interference, EMP and so on, which makes an organic version all the more desirable.
But, I deliberately didn't stress all this because the book is a core, generic book and designed to let you have Steve Austins, Doctor Octopuses and support the weird bionics found in 2000AD games as well as the gritty realism of 3I.
There are rules and guidelines for how, and when, you might be eligible for, or get, a cyberarm that has a concealed gauss rifle - or how much it'll cost to get one if you go black market.
So all the tools are there to make cybernetics as realistic, or wildly implausible, as you want.
But, I deliberately didn't stress all this because the book is a core, generic book and designed to let you have Steve Austins, Doctor Octopuses and support the weird bionics found in 2000AD games as well as the gritty realism of 3I.
There are rules and guidelines for how, and when, you might be eligible for, or get, a cyberarm that has a concealed gauss rifle - or how much it'll cost to get one if you go black market.
So all the tools are there to make cybernetics as realistic, or wildly implausible, as you want.
far-trader
Mongoose
Loz said:
Cool. Sounds well thought out and put together. Thanks for the briefing
It is interesting that Cybernetics has hacking rules too (Book 9: Robot introduced a couple of variations of rules for hacking as well). At this point other than core rules stuff I think there are 4 books that deal with computer hacking in some section (Agent, Scoundrel, Robot and Cybernetics)
Figured I'd post this here rather than start a new thread.
Since some of you obviously already have Cybernetics, and people involved with Mongoose do read and post on these forums, I was looking for some feedback on the book.
Recently got the .pdf, and was very happy with it until I began to look at TL and cost for the cybernetics (admittedly, haven't really gone through the cyberspace section yet).
I don't get it. The prices and TLs of the goodies in Cybernetics and the augmentations in CSC, the Core, the career books, and so on, don't line up at all.
For instance, in the core, at TL12, for 40k, I could get Ballistic Tracking Lenses and +1 ranged DM. For 125k at TL 10 (plus the cost of cybereye/s, another 30 or 60k) I can get +2.
For 75k and change, I can get an Advanced Combat Arm from the Core/CSC with superhuman strength (18), an AV of 14 and whatever unarmed or pistol weapon I want in it. With Cybernetics, I need a half million credits to get an advanced cyberarm that grants +1 strength, before I add anything else to it. I mean, the Advanced Hand costs as much as the Combat Arm.
On a related note, I can purchase a blanket +2 boost to a physical stat at TL12 for 100k, but to get the same on an Advance Cyberarm costs a cool million, for no discernible advantage to justify the price.
At TL13, for 25k, I could get Enhanced Vision from the Core (IR/Light Amp, Binocs), but to do the same with Cybernetics costs 110k (Low Light upgrade + Near Infrared). Now, those are TL10, to be fair, but dropping from 110k to 25k doesn't match the price drops in the rest of Cybernetics as TLs progress.
Now, I'm fine with Traveller having some sort of consistent system for Cybernetics. But if you're going to do that, then it'd be nice if it was compatible with prior prices and TLs, or if not, that a conversion guide be given, rather than have players and GMs try to ad hoc it. I understand not everything is apples to apples (e.g. BTLs and Combat Rangefinders are pretty different) but the price and TL differences seem pretty enormous for that to be the only justification.
Point being then, is there something here I'm missing, or is this much like DFW's issue with Robot? Have I missed a balance issue or something for the hugely inflated prices and TL shifts? For what a cybernetic leg costs I could buy a Gravcopter with change left over. I think a lot of the gear in Cybernetics is neat, but it also seems like it's gonna be a pain to integrate with the core book.
I would love feedback from the people at Mongoose too, if possible.
Since some of you obviously already have Cybernetics, and people involved with Mongoose do read and post on these forums, I was looking for some feedback on the book.
Recently got the .pdf, and was very happy with it until I began to look at TL and cost for the cybernetics (admittedly, haven't really gone through the cyberspace section yet).
I don't get it. The prices and TLs of the goodies in Cybernetics and the augmentations in CSC, the Core, the career books, and so on, don't line up at all.
For instance, in the core, at TL12, for 40k, I could get Ballistic Tracking Lenses and +1 ranged DM. For 125k at TL 10 (plus the cost of cybereye/s, another 30 or 60k) I can get +2.
For 75k and change, I can get an Advanced Combat Arm from the Core/CSC with superhuman strength (18), an AV of 14 and whatever unarmed or pistol weapon I want in it. With Cybernetics, I need a half million credits to get an advanced cyberarm that grants +1 strength, before I add anything else to it. I mean, the Advanced Hand costs as much as the Combat Arm.
On a related note, I can purchase a blanket +2 boost to a physical stat at TL12 for 100k, but to get the same on an Advance Cyberarm costs a cool million, for no discernible advantage to justify the price.
At TL13, for 25k, I could get Enhanced Vision from the Core (IR/Light Amp, Binocs), but to do the same with Cybernetics costs 110k (Low Light upgrade + Near Infrared). Now, those are TL10, to be fair, but dropping from 110k to 25k doesn't match the price drops in the rest of Cybernetics as TLs progress.
Now, I'm fine with Traveller having some sort of consistent system for Cybernetics. But if you're going to do that, then it'd be nice if it was compatible with prior prices and TLs, or if not, that a conversion guide be given, rather than have players and GMs try to ad hoc it. I understand not everything is apples to apples (e.g. BTLs and Combat Rangefinders are pretty different) but the price and TL differences seem pretty enormous for that to be the only justification.
Point being then, is there something here I'm missing, or is this much like DFW's issue with Robot? Have I missed a balance issue or something for the hugely inflated prices and TL shifts? For what a cybernetic leg costs I could buy a Gravcopter with change left over. I think a lot of the gear in Cybernetics is neat, but it also seems like it's gonna be a pain to integrate with the core book.
I would love feedback from the people at Mongoose too, if possible.
