Cult Spells

[Voriof]

So basically, they're the same, just a bit different names and planes.

Sort of. It's a bit like saying zebras and horses are basically the same or Islam and Christianity because they share Jesus and Abraham. The scholars amongst us would say yes, the vast majority would say not really.

Very nicely put!

Your average Orlanthi has as much chance of resisting spirits as an american indian has of resisting smallpox. Spirits are mostly alien to them, they don't really belong in their world. Those cases where Orlanthi do have techniques to fight off spirits (suing a ghost in front of the clan moot for damages, etc) I would postulate that that ghost wasn't a spirit at all but a disembodied angry soul something that is understood to the local culture. You can't sue somebody who doesn't recognise your courts after all. Of course, I would probably call that ghost a spirit in play.

Again, a very evocative example.

You can get yourself in the wrong spot but its damned uncomfortable to be A Conneticut Spirit in King Orlanth's Court. I prefer to use the word Ghost for any sort of angry, disembodied dead person. It doesn't matter what sort of dead person they are (spirt, soul, essence) though I could make a case for them requiring special magics to affect.

It makes a good case for RP if someone has to go and find a speical kind of Humakti to get rid of the ghost of a sorcerer a bunch of Orlanthi killed. Their own, divine anti-ghose magic doesn't work too well so they need to get something special.

Many myths belonging to the Orlanthi talk of their god's magic simply not working on the Sorcerer Folk who came from the West in the God Time. Similarly, there are problems with fighting the Spirits. That's one reason the Orlanthi keep that wierdo Kolat around - he is a friendly spirit-wrangling type. Highly useful for dealing with hostile spirits.

This all begs the question if an Ernalda priestess casts discorporation and a shaman discorporates whether they will see each other on the other side.

Depends on where the discorporation takes you. If you want a zone like the old SPirit Plane or assume it takes you directly into the Hero Planes, then yes. If you assume it takes you straight into YOUR otherworld, then no.

I'd go with what causes the most fun.

In my opinion:
[a] Spirits - Unconscious but mostly personalised otherworld entitites that belong to those who worship spirits.
Daimones - mostly physical, conscious and intelligent entities that belong to those who worship gods.
[c] Essences - Mostly unpersonalised, archetypal forces that represent an idea. Mostly unphysical but often reside in objects. Belongs to those who worship ideas.

Interesting view. a) is mostly true but many spirits are quite awake and conscious. This may be due to closer association with mortals such as being a spirit ally or worshipped.

b) many daimoines are barely sentient, often being simple impluses and actions. Lesser wind godlings, for example.

c) essences are pretty wierd, yeah. They do what they are programmed to do and little else. However, there are soem that are very, very sentient and free willed. The Greater Unicorns found in the West, is an essence creature, for example, that is powerful, capable of its own magicl, and very intelligent. However, something like an elemental is not. Or a power-source essence. Or a intellect essence. These are merely... tools.

Since the typical essence employed by sorcerers are merely tools, it is no surprise that the God Learners have similar views of Gods, treating them as merely runes and personifications of runes that are to be exploited and used.

I believe there is a progression in human consciousness being hinted at here as well as a refusal to accept that each Gloranthan culture occupies the same mental world.

Hmm. Closet mystic are we? :twisted: That can get you into a lot of trouble. Here, have this book of riddles...

All my own opinion of course

And interesting ones they are, at that.

Jeff

 

[Rurik]

Your average Orlanthi has as much chance of resisting spirits as an american indian has of resisting smallpox. Spirits are mostly alien to them, they don't really belong in their world. Those cases where Orlanthi do have techniques to fight off spirits (suing a ghost in front of the clan moot for damages, etc) I would postulate that that ghost wasn't a spirit at all but a disembodied angry soul something that is understood to the local culture. You can't sue somebody who doesn't recognise your courts after all. Of course, I would probably call that ghost a spirit in play.

Again, a very evocative example.

You can get yourself in the wrong spot but its damned uncomfortable to be A Conneticut Spirit in King Orlanth's Court. I prefer to use the word Ghost for any sort of angry, disembodied dead person. It doesn't matter what sort of dead person they are (spirt, soul, essence) though I could make a case for them requiring special magics to affect.

It makes a good case for RP if someone has to go and find a speical kind of Humakti to get rid of the ghost of a sorcerer a bunch of Orlanthi killed. Their own, divine anti-ghose magic doesn't work too well so they need to get something special.

Many myths belonging to the Orlanthi talk of their god's magic simply not working on the Sorcerer Folk who came from the West in the God Time. Similarly, there are problems with fighting the Spirits. That's one reason the Orlanthi keep that wierdo Kolat around - he is a friendly spirit-wrangling type. Highly useful for dealing with hostile spirits.

Hmm. I like the whole concept of this. It is currently NOT modelled at all in the mechanics of RQ. I'll be thinking about this...

 

[Voriof]

Your average Orlanthi has as much chance of resisting spirits as an american indian has of resisting smallpox. Spirits are mostly alien to them, they don't really belong in their world. Those cases where Orlanthi do have techniques to fight off spirits (suing a ghost in front of the clan moot for damages, etc) I would postulate that that ghost wasn't a spirit at all but a disembodied angry soul something that is understood to the local culture. You can't sue somebody who doesn't recognise your courts after all. Of course, I would probably call that ghost a spirit in play.

Again, a very evocative example.

You can get yourself in the wrong spot but its damned uncomfortable to be A Conneticut Spirit in King Orlanth's Court. I prefer to use the word Ghost for any sort of angry, disembodied dead person. It doesn't matter what sort of dead person they are (spirt, soul, essence) though I could make a case for them requiring special magics to affect.

It makes a good case for RP if someone has to go and find a speical kind of Humakti to get rid of the ghost of a sorcerer a bunch of Orlanthi killed. Their own, divine anti-ghose magic doesn't work too well so they need to get something special.

Many myths belonging to the Orlanthi talk of their god's magic simply not working on the Sorcerer Folk who came from the West in the God Time. Similarly, there are problems with fighting the Spirits. That's one reason the Orlanthi keep that wierdo Kolat around - he is a friendly spirit-wrangling type. Highly useful for dealing with hostile spirits.

Hmm. I like the whole concept of this. It is currently NOT modelled at all in the mechanics of RQ. I'll be thinking about this...

Actually, it is. I belive that it is stated that the various types of spirit.essence.daimoine magic only work on the correct type. Ty Kora Tek's writeup discusses that she can affect any form of ghost, IIRC.

And the Orlanthi myths are from the earlier parts of the God Time. The gods did find solutions to the intruding alien magic. Any Gloranthan culture which survives intact usually involves something about dealing with alien magical foes in some fashion... The ones that don't are usually extinquished or absorbed. Many Orlanthi living in Maniria and Ralios can trace their descent from conquored hsunchen orother spirit worshipping folk who were absorbed by the Orlanthi. Just as a random example.

As to being the wrong type of magician in an otherworld, that is probably best covered in a book on HeroQuesting, I think. I may have talked about it in CoG but it really wasn't central tothe book and I may have deleted the section in question to save space.

Jeff

 

[Rurik]

What I was referring to was that an Orlanthi's (or any theists) chance of resisteing a spirit is not hampered at all by practising theism rather than animism - it is an opposed persistance roll regardless of the source of the magical 'attack' - as I was interpreting Sinsalo's statement on Orlanthi's resisting Spirits.

I could definately see ending up in the wrong otherworld being a problem on a HeroQuest.

 

[Voriof]

What I was referring to was that an Orlanthi's (or any theists) chance of resisteing a spirit is not hampered at all by practising theism rather than animism - it is an opposed persistance roll regardless of the source of the magical 'attack' - as I was interpreting Sinsalo's statement on Orlanthi's resisting Spirits.

I could definately see ending up in the wrong otherworld being a problem on a HeroQuest.

Happens all the time, I think. If you're primarily a shaman type and your Orlanthi buddies are going on a quest, you'll feel pretty crummy until you get into the Hero Wars - where the magical powers are all mixed up again.

Its very difficult to raid into another Otherworld. Even the God Learners had trouble with it. They concentrated on the myths and the Hero Plane which were easier to manipulate. Incidentally, that's how they nearly extinguished the worship of St. Arkat - among others - they systemitically cut off all the spiritual roads leading to those myths. No one has been able to reach Arkat's home at Stanton Wells (sp) for centuries except the Trolls.

Jeff