CSC Power Generators
- Thread starter MasterGwydion
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MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
This is basically what I am talking about. The power output doesn't actually change. A Power Point is a Power Point is a Power Point. The only thing that changes is the size of the generator.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
No. A power point is a power point is a power point, no matter what is generating it. The only thing that changes is the size of the generator. Power points scale based on the size of the generator, not the size of the thing using them.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Sig basically just described exactly what I want. A continuation of the rules that are already written and in use. What spin-off rules are required for that? A minimum listed size? Like not being able to build a 0.01-ton fusion plant? We used to have that in the rules anyhow, except some idiot made the minimum size only apply to the fuel tank and not the actual power plant itself. That is it. What else is required?Because Geir is playing with live ammunition and he is a) very wary of the Law of Unintended Consequences and b) can likely already see the dozens and dozens of spin-off rules that could be patched into such a change, which will bring him right back to a).
Traveller is coming up to its 50th anniversary and is already a patched ship. Sometimes a simple change is not always that simple.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Currently, smallest spacecraft power plant can produce one power point.
An advanced fusion reactor at technological level fifteen would thus be fifty kilogrammes.
An advanced fusion reactor at technological level fifteen would thus be fifty kilogrammes.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Better if you stick with Slots, Vehicle Slots, or Dtons. Using real world measurements is too messy.
Er I meant that a small generator is only generating about 0.08 power points, if we assume 1 power point is on ship scale.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
No. A power point has no scale. A power point is a power point is a power point. The only thing that changes, listen close, is the size of the generator. That is all. Don't overthink it. It is simple, not complex.
your thing that uses 0.08 power points, uses 0.08 power points. Doesn't matter if it is getting that power from a Tigress's reactor or from a small generator. It is still the same.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
If that is how the math works out, yes, but I have different numbers. How small is the generator you are talking about?
If 1dton of this generator puts out 8 power points
A 1 Vehicle Space generator would put out 2 power points
A 1 Slot Generator would put out roughly, 0.03 power points.
Using the Dton to Vehicle Space to Slot conversation in the RH, pg 14
Yeah I hadn't looked closely. Your numbers make sense to me. I was guessing arbitrarily that the smallest geberator in the 5 you started with was a very small number of slots, and that the largest was comparable to a single space. But i hadnt got my books out for exact values. Though I'd want a tech level assumption built in as well, since we know that starship power plant change by tech level.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Already included. The different power plants have different TLs and different outputs. We would just have to figure out what the outputs and TLs are for the type of power generators that haven't been detailed elsewhere, such as the Wind Turbine, Hydrocarbon, and RTGs.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
Still have all my fingers and intend to keep it that way. I type slow enough as it is.
agentwigggles
Cosmic Mongoose
You cant have 5 simple numbers because its a hydra problem. The 5 simple numbers demand interaction and interposing on other systems, which for better or worse arent aware of each other.
Power points cant be universal power points.
Because power points is used for spaceships.
If we say a backpack generator one pp, then the immediate question is why dont we have that in an array instead of the large expensive ship based one.
If the response is saying that those would be different power points from the backpack generator, then what you're saying is fractional power points.
We get accidental free energy devices.
Power points cant be universal power points.
Because power points is used for spaceships.
If we say a backpack generator one pp, then the immediate question is why dont we have that in an array instead of the large expensive ship based one.
If the response is saying that those would be different power points from the backpack generator, then what you're saying is fractional power points.
We get accidental free energy devices.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Power point can be universal. There is no reason for them not to be. What array are you talking about? What is an array? Book and page number so I can go check it out?
Backpack-sized generator or starship power plant, a power point is a power point. The only difference is that the bigger one puts out more of them, because, ummm, its bigger. I am not sure how to more clearly explain this. A 1-ton TL-12 Fusion Power Plant puts out 15 power points. With Me so far? So that is 15 power points per ton. A backpack is roughly how large? 8 Slots? Let's say for this discussion that a backpack-sized thing is 8 Slots. There are 256 Slots per ton. So 15 power points per ton scales down to just under 0.5 power points for the backpack-sized TL-12 fusion generator.
Did this explanation help more?
J. L. Brown
Emperor Mongoose
The real key is to design the design system before releasing a bunch of hand-waved stuff that ignores the design rules.
I will go on record right now, that I would happily buy every book for Mongoose Traveller 3e IF it was just all of 2e, but with Sigtrygg's "All the background assumptions & design rules in one boring book that only grognards buy" as a foundation. I am a grognard, and I will buy it. It might be super boring to create such a 3e Bible, but it keeps discrepancies and weird exploits from creeping in and making life miserable for the Game Masters. The 'just hand wave it' crowd insists that discrepancies will come out of providing 3e Biblical-style details -- but with so much crap already hand-waved, how can you possibly claim that there are not already discrepancies? If the answer is 'Well, sure there are some -- but GM fiat can just cover that' -- then wouldn't that work equally well with a 3e Bible of build systems? Wouldn't you expect that things built consistently with the same pre-thought design sequence might be in less need of GM fiat?
Go ahead and finish 2e; write books for all types of new adventuring styles -- maybe there needs to special rules for wandering David Carradine style martial-artists who fight evil. Maybe there needs to be a book about how to have adventures with founding and running an underground Psionic Institute. Maybe someone will finally get around to answering 'Why is there trade between Sectors and Empires?' by writing a 'Sector Builders Handbook' -- complete with what kinds of market forces drive long-distance trade up and down the Spinward Main. Maybe there is a burning need to detail the kinds of cultural priorities motivate the Third Imperium & various Foreign Empires -- how do Aslan classify worlds & prioritize them for conquest? What about the Vargr point of view? Are the K'kree interested in any worlds which are not open savannah? What the hell are the Hivers really after? What do the star-charts for each of these empires look like, and why? What values do they include in their UWPs? How they think and behave shapes what they want, what they trade for, what goals they set, and why they go to war -- write that book for 2e, complete with all the glorious nonsense of 'we just handwaved this without reading anything else we have ever published -- but it works in this book'. Go ahead and create 'industrial production' rules that are use credits in some places, dTons in others, Resource Units in others, kilograms in others, and People-Work-Hours in yet other places, none of which works together; get all that stuff published & out there. Mass combat. Converting the heathens. Exploration. Piracy. Science. Colonization. Extinction. Deep history. Everything.
Then sit down to do 3e correctly; and start with the Bible of build-rules.
Once everything is written, make the effort to actually make it a coherent whole -- where TL makes a consistent difference from 0 to 35 (or 0 to 100, or whatever, as long as it is consistent throughout), where the units are all the same and scale correctly. Don't rush to a deadline with the Bible, but do it first.
I will buy it. I will buy all of it.
I will go on record right now, that I would happily buy every book for Mongoose Traveller 3e IF it was just all of 2e, but with Sigtrygg's "All the background assumptions & design rules in one boring book that only grognards buy" as a foundation. I am a grognard, and I will buy it. It might be super boring to create such a 3e Bible, but it keeps discrepancies and weird exploits from creeping in and making life miserable for the Game Masters. The 'just hand wave it' crowd insists that discrepancies will come out of providing 3e Biblical-style details -- but with so much crap already hand-waved, how can you possibly claim that there are not already discrepancies? If the answer is 'Well, sure there are some -- but GM fiat can just cover that' -- then wouldn't that work equally well with a 3e Bible of build systems? Wouldn't you expect that things built consistently with the same pre-thought design sequence might be in less need of GM fiat?
Go ahead and finish 2e; write books for all types of new adventuring styles -- maybe there needs to special rules for wandering David Carradine style martial-artists who fight evil. Maybe there needs to be a book about how to have adventures with founding and running an underground Psionic Institute. Maybe someone will finally get around to answering 'Why is there trade between Sectors and Empires?' by writing a 'Sector Builders Handbook' -- complete with what kinds of market forces drive long-distance trade up and down the Spinward Main. Maybe there is a burning need to detail the kinds of cultural priorities motivate the Third Imperium & various Foreign Empires -- how do Aslan classify worlds & prioritize them for conquest? What about the Vargr point of view? Are the K'kree interested in any worlds which are not open savannah? What the hell are the Hivers really after? What do the star-charts for each of these empires look like, and why? What values do they include in their UWPs? How they think and behave shapes what they want, what they trade for, what goals they set, and why they go to war -- write that book for 2e, complete with all the glorious nonsense of 'we just handwaved this without reading anything else we have ever published -- but it works in this book'. Go ahead and create 'industrial production' rules that are use credits in some places, dTons in others, Resource Units in others, kilograms in others, and People-Work-Hours in yet other places, none of which works together; get all that stuff published & out there. Mass combat. Converting the heathens. Exploration. Piracy. Science. Colonization. Extinction. Deep history. Everything.
Then sit down to do 3e correctly; and start with the Bible of build-rules.
Once everything is written, make the effort to actually make it a coherent whole -- where TL makes a consistent difference from 0 to 35 (or 0 to 100, or whatever, as long as it is consistent throughout), where the units are all the same and scale correctly. Don't rush to a deadline with the Bible, but do it first.
I will buy it. I will buy all of it.
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MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Me too
