Crossbow and other ranged weapon rules

[Zager Krahl]

Have been reading through the HoM, and noticed something interesting: while the rules clearly state the different qualities of the Bor Musket and Bor Pistol compared to the normal Bow (3x and 2x damage respectively), it never gives anything on the Crossbow. Given how often LW can get killed by some crossbow-wielding Drakkarim, I thought to propose the following rules.

Crossbow (Ranged Weapon)
- deals 2x damage
- takes one full round to reload (so it cannot be fired in consecutive rounds, just like the Bor Musket)

Heavy Crossbow (Ranged Weapon)
- deals 3x damage
- takes one full round to reload (so it cannot be fired in consecutive rounds, just like the Bor Musket)
- needs special Heavy Bolts to do 3x damage; when firing regular Bolts, it will do only 2x damage

Any ideas from other players/GM's that have used or encountered crossbows?

 

[Zager Krahl]

Anything? Nothing?

 

[beowuuf]

No real comment, is a longbow differentiated in the core rules, or do all bows come under 'bow'?

After all, Lone Wolf can also be instantly killed by a bow in the single player rules, so not sure why the crossbow deserved the higher damage. It might be game breaking when tied in with skills and so on.

 

[August1]

I am afraid I have to agree here. The game rules as given have a certainly level of simplicity as part of their nature. Rifles are differentiated from bows because of their drastically dissimilar styles. Beyond that, bows include crossbows as their nature is much the same.

Adding layers of complication DOES make for a more realistic and varied game but if that is what you are looking for, may I suggest our previous LW system? I hear it has lots of fun rules...

-A

 

[Zager Krahl]

Well, I suggested these rules for the following reasons (which form a logical progression to me):

- Crossbows have a long reloading time, so firing them every round would be unrealistic
- If the Crossbow can only fire every second round, then they would need some trait to make up for this reduced rate of fire (in the same way that a Bor Musket only fires every second round, but deals 3x damage). If not, the Crossbow would be rendered obsolete by the Bow (same damage, but can fire every round).
- Giving the Crossbow 3x damage would have made the Bor Musket obsolete, as a Crossbow would then do the same amount of damage while using only one ammunition type (compared to the two needed for the Bor Musket - Boom Powder and Lead Shot).

The logical conclusion was then to give the Crossbow 2x damage, firing only every second round. The player would then have a choice of 3 different weapons that not only LOOK different, but also ACT different:

- Bow: fire every round, no damage modifier, 1 ammo type (Arrow)
- Crossbow: fire every second round, 2x damage, 1 ammo type (Bolt)
- Musket: fire every second round, 3x damage, 2 ammo types (Powder, Shot)

 

[August1]

Perfectly logical thoughts.

 

[Sir Brad]

And when explained fits with the games KISS philosophy.

 

[Zager Krahl]

It also gives random peasants a heavy clout against armoured knights, as the Church discovered in medieval times... Although I'm guessing Magnamund went the same path as Europe and did NOT ban the crossbow!

 

[Random Code]

So Zager, have you now dropped the heavy crossbow as this did 3X damage like the musket?

 

[Zager Krahl]

I'd leave it as a rare Darklands weapon, for special occasions. The regular Crossbow should suffice for most adventures, I suspect.

 

[Random Code]

Cool. That all sounds like a pretty nice houserule. Consider it yoinked!

 

[phantomdoodler]

Sounds reasonable, but there is a cost factor here. Crossbows, with these rules, are essentially bor pistols, with slightly more expensive ammo. They are two handed, as oppose to pistols, but still they are nearly 100 crowns cheaper!

Personally I would just apply damage mods:

Crossbow (1 round to reload): +2 Damage
Longbow: +1 damage
Sling: -1 damage
Thrown Dagger: -2 damage

 

[Zager Krahl]

1) Bor pistols are scarce
2) Crossbows cannot be wielded with one hand, unlike Bor pistols
3) Individual Bolts may be more expensive than than individual Lead Shot, but the Bor pistol still requires Boom Powder - which is also scarce and expensive

 

[phantomdoodler]

Which is exactly why I think bor pistols need to be a hell of a lot more powerful than crossbows. As you correctly put, bor pistols are hard to come buy, much more expensive, and difficulty to maintain. If a crossbow did the same damage as a bor pistol, more people would have them, and the bor gunners unique role would be diminished slightly. I do agree though that that a crossbow needs to be more powerful than other missile weapons - much as i love the simplified rules, they are a little too simplistic at times. I totally agree on your logic to make crossbows more powerful - I think though that you may have gone a little too far the other way. Maybe +50% damage?

 

[phantomdoodler]

I may work on some simple range rules, because other than damage, that may be a good way to differentiate between weapons. Maybe something like new warhammer 3rd ed abstract range system, or FATE`s zone system. Keeping detailed track of yards etc may not be in the spirit of lonewolf.

 

[Zager Krahl]

A Bor pistol can be wielded in one hand: which means you can fire two of them, one each round, for two rounds before having to switch to a melee weapon (or reloading one) in the third round. I think that already makes them more powerful than the crossbow.

Also, Bor pistols can be concealed quite easily...

 

[phantomdoodler]

Fair enough.