In most jobs involving catastrophic consequences on failure, you get praised for being careful.
Crew Salaries
- Thread starter Terry Mixon
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Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
That frozen O-ring won't matter. Press the damned button.
Fluffy Bunny Feet
Cosmic Mongoose
I like the Companion rules (I have the 2016 version) for the Astrogator and Engineer rolls which allow not just for misjumps but bad jumps. It helps explain why the big companies pay for their high skill Astrogators and Engineers so as not to upset the passengers (and crew) too much by having bad jump side effects and of course good jumps are more likely to use minimum time and arrive on target. A good enough team on a ship can result in it making more jumps/year and being more profitable. After all not every one can boast of their speed doing the Kessel Run.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
If you go by what seems the original intent, tweak the astrogation check by range, making those under two a lot easier, and those three and above, really difficult.
And for the engineering roll, two hundred tonnes and under fairly easy, and above, increasingly more difficult.
And for the engineering roll, two hundred tonnes and under fairly easy, and above, increasingly more difficult.
There will usually be plenty of time to take extra time on the astrogation check since it can be done on the way to the jump point and does not decay for hours. The result of failure (or getting a less than excellent result) is you can just re-try, the rules as written do not seem to prevent you from knowing that you failed (referees might impose that for a catastrophic failure, but it is hard to envisage circumstances that might arise). Due to the way skills are acquired in careers it is entirely possible you might have more than one crew member with some level of Astrogation and they could cross check each others work even in this extreme case. Its not like they are doing anything else during transit.
Astrogation and Engineering rolls can benefit from tool based assistance such as expert packages. Even the cheapest package will grant +1 to someone who already possesses the skill and such a system would cost less than two weeks wages. They should probably be standard equipment.
Unless your Astrogator is intoxicated or otherwise mentally impaired, failure of the astrogation roll is going to be by DM fiat rather than any random roll.
The Engineering roll might be under tighter time constraints as you cant really make the check until you are ready to actually jump and that means you are hanging around at the jump point. If hostiles happen to be in the area, you might even have to rush the roll. If the engine is poorly maintained or you have been forced to use unrefined fuel then the chances of failure become plausible.
So it is going to take a combination of poor equipment, poor maintenance, low skill and probably external factors in both Engineering and Astrogation for there to be significant adverse jump failures. This is as it should be, the vast majority of jumps should be without incident. This is the default mechanism that ensures the Traveller universe exists so it needs to be reliable.
It is just disappointing that so many scenarios seem to rely on jump failure as the McGuffin.
To be honest the default rules do do a fairly good job of making J-1 to 2 trivial, J-3 and J-4 needing expertise and J-5 and J-6 needing both expertise and care, just with the -Jump Distance modifier.
A basic Astrogator 1 without an EDU mod is having to make 9+ rolls to plot a J-6. Not a job you'd give to the new hire.
Even a very highly skilled Astrogation 4 with EDU 12 is trying to make a 4+ roll, for a J-6. Definitely a case where the Captain will not mind if they take their time.
A basic Astrogator 1 without an EDU mod is having to make 9+ rolls to plot a J-6. Not a job you'd give to the new hire.
Even a very highly skilled Astrogation 4 with EDU 12 is trying to make a 4+ roll, for a J-6. Definitely a case where the Captain will not mind if they take their time.
I agree with the points Swordtart raises, but extra time and computer aided assistance still doesn't quite bring the longest jumps into the automatic zone without also having an exceptional astrogator.
Jump-5 with Astrogator 2 and EDU 9-11 (+1) plus Expert (Astrogation) has a net mod of -5 +2 +1 +1, or -1. Taking one level of extra time changes that to +1, so a fail on a 2 and a marginal success on a 3. You *might* be better off not taking the extra time and just trying again every D6x10 minutes if you roll a 4 or less (1 in 6 chance).
Jump-5 with Astrogator 2 and EDU 9-11 (+1) plus Expert (Astrogation) has a net mod of -5 +2 +1 +1, or -1. Taking one level of extra time changes that to +1, so a fail on a 2 and a marginal success on a 3. You *might* be better off not taking the extra time and just trying again every D6x10 minutes if you roll a 4 or less (1 in 6 chance).
You can get a 22 year old grad, straight out of university with Astrogation-2 and maybe Engineering(Jump)-1 on the side. As they have been to Uni they will probably have an EDU bonus. Give them a cheap expert package as a graduation present and they will be making Astrogation rolls at +4 or better and Engineering rolls at +3 or better. If they take their time on the Astrogation roll out to the jump point they are going to be nailing even those Jump-4 rolls consistently and have plenty of time to re-run the calculations to try to get an even better plot. Most transits are double digit hours.
Then they can head down to engineering to fire up the drive.
I can see this being a pretty default career path (but maybe not one for players). Starports will probably offer pre-plotted routes by such individuals as a service. Just upload by tight beam on the way out.
Then they can head down to engineering to fire up the drive.
I can see this being a pretty default career path (but maybe not one for players). Starports will probably offer pre-plotted routes by such individuals as a service. Just upload by tight beam on the way out.
Yeah, in my examples I basically assumed skill 2 and an edu bonus of +1 is usual. But a bit of bad luck and you may never manage that J-5 or J-6 plot.
Because the plot needs the exact specifics of the ship and destination, there's a limit to how much pre-plotting can be done. I expect it's a matter of the ship contracting a port astrogator to do the job, but if something goes wrong - even a delay in leaving port, or conversely, having to leave early - it may be invalidated. But for boring ships doing boring scheduled cargo runs, absolutely. I'd probably make a commercially purchased plot a flat +1 to the Engineering roll to encourage ship Astrogators, who should be able to do better, especially on milk runs. But paying for the security of a professional J-3 plot when your own Astrogator is a rookie makes sense.
Because the plot needs the exact specifics of the ship and destination, there's a limit to how much pre-plotting can be done. I expect it's a matter of the ship contracting a port astrogator to do the job, but if something goes wrong - even a delay in leaving port, or conversely, having to leave early - it may be invalidated. But for boring ships doing boring scheduled cargo runs, absolutely. I'd probably make a commercially purchased plot a flat +1 to the Engineering roll to encourage ship Astrogators, who should be able to do better, especially on milk runs. But paying for the security of a professional J-3 plot when your own Astrogator is a rookie makes sense.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
In theory, given enough time, you could get a Doctor of Cultural Studies, to make an astrogation check for a one parsec jump, at four plus.
Three time levels would be the 1Dx10 Hours bracket.
What could possibly go wrong?
Although...
They ARE using a hypercomputer with expensive and sophisticated Jump software. SOME tasks should be not allowed unskilled, but it's hard to definitively argue that an experienced spacehand without Astrogation (especially a Pilot or Jump Engineer) couldn't attempt to get it to work in an emergency.
What could possibly go wrong?
Although...
They ARE using a hypercomputer with expensive and sophisticated Jump software. SOME tasks should be not allowed unskilled, but it's hard to definitively argue that an experienced spacehand without Astrogation (especially a Pilot or Jump Engineer) couldn't attempt to get it to work in an emergency.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
The problem is that the universe does not support this assumption.
Rank/1 Crew are the standard, not the exception. Maybe that is just on PC ships since the rule may not apply to NPC ships.
According to page 92 of the CRB
Average is Skill 1
Experienced (NCO-types) Skill 2
Elite (Special Forces/Top Gun-types) Skill 3
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Is this from Specialist Forces? If so, I’ll point out how wrong so many other things in that book are wrong.
Actually the 22 year old grad might make an easy NPC or interesting solo character in a campaign.
As an NPC they can be a classic background character. They consistently board immediately before departure, exactly to contract but no earlier. Socially awkward they sit doing calculations all the way to the jump point, no-one wants to disturb. When they reach the jump point they go to engineering and start up the drive and again no-one wants to disturb them. When in jump space they spend their time in engineering or their cabin studying eating pot noodles and drinking red-bull. They briefly appear on the bridge at emergence, smile smugly and then head back to engineering to conduct Jump Drive maintenance during the run into the star port. Once dirtside after completing any ground based maintenance and discharging their duties they head off alone for shore leave, only returning bang on time for boarding.
Other than work based conversations they don't engage with the rest of the crew and whilst not unpleasant they are detached. They are entirely tolerable and magnificently efficient. The rest of the crew will speculate wildly on what they do when not on the ship (and discovering this might even become an adventure). They could be a voracious libertine, small package courier, serial criminal, miniature wargamer or anything. They can disappear into the background when the referee can't be bothered and other than the stateroom requirement might as well be virtual crew. The crew despite knowing nothing about them might well be fiercely loyal (since they are the most important person for keeping them safe in jump) and if the Astrogator is physically attractive some might even fantasise about romantic involvement with this enigmatic mystery person.
As a PC they are a bit of a one-trick pony and that trick will likely never be exercised since they will normally never fail it. The only other skills they have are the background ones at 0. They could work their passage from system to system (effectively playing out the drifter career week by week). They can work towards new skills in jump and spend shore leave trying to make a little money on the side. Many adventures can be had with surprisingly few skills and some can be compensated by equipment. Adventures are unlikely to be grand initially, but after a few months extra skills will be added to the pile. After 4 years adventuring the character will likely have more skills, allies and enemies than simply rolling on a standard term in any career.
I am going to assume here that even of a ship has an astrogator it is likely a duel role since most small ships cannot afford to have too many specialists due to the stateroom requirement. Astrogator 0 is plenty for most ships but since they probably have to take it slow to ensure success, subbing them out will free up a lot of their time for their other duties.
Surprisingly the Astrogator-2 might be too good for many ships as it also comes at a 50% cost increase (and extra KCR2.5 per month). Finding work with liners would be easy, but it is also likely to be very tedious. Astrogators on shore leave might be the most rowdy of all the crew as they are under a lot of pressure for a short period and then bored out of their minds for the remainder.
As an NPC they can be a classic background character. They consistently board immediately before departure, exactly to contract but no earlier. Socially awkward they sit doing calculations all the way to the jump point, no-one wants to disturb. When they reach the jump point they go to engineering and start up the drive and again no-one wants to disturb them. When in jump space they spend their time in engineering or their cabin studying eating pot noodles and drinking red-bull. They briefly appear on the bridge at emergence, smile smugly and then head back to engineering to conduct Jump Drive maintenance during the run into the star port. Once dirtside after completing any ground based maintenance and discharging their duties they head off alone for shore leave, only returning bang on time for boarding.
Other than work based conversations they don't engage with the rest of the crew and whilst not unpleasant they are detached. They are entirely tolerable and magnificently efficient. The rest of the crew will speculate wildly on what they do when not on the ship (and discovering this might even become an adventure). They could be a voracious libertine, small package courier, serial criminal, miniature wargamer or anything. They can disappear into the background when the referee can't be bothered and other than the stateroom requirement might as well be virtual crew. The crew despite knowing nothing about them might well be fiercely loyal (since they are the most important person for keeping them safe in jump) and if the Astrogator is physically attractive some might even fantasise about romantic involvement with this enigmatic mystery person.
As a PC they are a bit of a one-trick pony and that trick will likely never be exercised since they will normally never fail it. The only other skills they have are the background ones at 0. They could work their passage from system to system (effectively playing out the drifter career week by week). They can work towards new skills in jump and spend shore leave trying to make a little money on the side. Many adventures can be had with surprisingly few skills and some can be compensated by equipment. Adventures are unlikely to be grand initially, but after a few months extra skills will be added to the pile. After 4 years adventuring the character will likely have more skills, allies and enemies than simply rolling on a standard term in any career.
I am going to assume here that even of a ship has an astrogator it is likely a duel role since most small ships cannot afford to have too many specialists due to the stateroom requirement. Astrogator 0 is plenty for most ships but since they probably have to take it slow to ensure success, subbing them out will free up a lot of their time for their other duties.
Surprisingly the Astrogator-2 might be too good for many ships as it also comes at a 50% cost increase (and extra KCR2.5 per month). Finding work with liners would be easy, but it is also likely to be very tedious. Astrogators on shore leave might be the most rowdy of all the crew as they are under a lot of pressure for a short period and then bored out of their minds for the remainder.
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Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Average isn’t who you want to levy the survival of your multimillion credit ship on. No one in their right minds would want less than an experienced engineer.
My take on this:
Skill 0: Someone with passing knowledge of the field.
Skill 1: Some experience but not seasoned.
Skill 2: A seasoned professional.
Skill 3: An expert.
Skill 4: A voice in the field.
Skill 5: A top person in the field.
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It's basically just annoying that the attempt to make Engineering and Astrogation skills "important", they have changed the setting in substantial ways. Originally, jump was intended to be reliable and "moving from planet to planet was as safe as flying from continent to continent today". You only misjumped if you intentionally did something dangerous: jumping too close to a world, using unrefined fuel, not having enough engineering crew, or skipping on maintenance.
It's only recently that it was a task check every time you jump and you can get bad results on routine jumps normal for your ship. Unfortunately, it's just a save or die roll every few weeks so not that interesting a mechanic.
Of course, the fact that they removed unrefined fuel from the game for all practical purposes got rid of 90% of the misjump risk, so it does need to be added somewhere else. But this pointless task chain doesn't cut it, imho.
The other issue is that Mongoose leans into the not unreasonable idea that ship crews are highly skilled, which isn't supported by the character generation system. If the assumption is that the Engineer has 2-4 (or more) ranks of Engineer to handle all the tasks (most PP, M-Drive, and LS example task checks are 8+ or 10+ so rolling +0 isn't gonna cut it), the chargen should create such characters. But it doesn't.
It's only recently that it was a task check every time you jump and you can get bad results on routine jumps normal for your ship. Unfortunately, it's just a save or die roll every few weeks so not that interesting a mechanic.
Of course, the fact that they removed unrefined fuel from the game for all practical purposes got rid of 90% of the misjump risk, so it does need to be added somewhere else. But this pointless task chain doesn't cut it, imho.
The other issue is that Mongoose leans into the not unreasonable idea that ship crews are highly skilled, which isn't supported by the character generation system. If the assumption is that the Engineer has 2-4 (or more) ranks of Engineer to handle all the tasks (most PP, M-Drive, and LS example task checks are 8+ or 10+ so rolling +0 isn't gonna cut it), the chargen should create such characters. But it doesn't.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Average is average because it is what most do. If Level 2 were supposed to be average, they wouldn't have labeled Skill Rank 1 as Average.
IYTU, sure, but it is not Canon.
You didn't read my post? I specifically stated and listed it's page number in the CRBIs this from Specialist Forces? If so, I’ll point out how wrong so many other things in that book are wrong.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Reading is hard. You do you, but the difficulty levels for the job mentioned make it unlikely that average is good enough. That’s just the way it is.
Fluffy Bunny Feet
Cosmic Mongoose
Want and able to get/afford are not the same thing. Your free trader is on "Amish frontier world" when your Engineer dies/crippled/goes native you won't have a lot of choices. Your belter character with Jack of All trades may be all you have.
Then again there are the "Kaylee Frye" type characters who aren't experienced but are talented.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
All true.
