Creating Cults From Scratch

[daxos232]

I've had this idea for a while but didn't have any luck deciding on how to carry it out. I'm not very good at designing game mechanics.

Ryhopewood's method to design cultural backgrounds inspired me, and it could be applied to cults with modifications.

This could be used so that GM's don't need pre-made cults ahead of time, and players can design exactly what they want by themselves.

This is a rough draft that I wrote up in about 45 minutes off the top of my head, and I haven't had time to refine it, so its not very good. It would probably help if I had the MRQ2 Cults book.

Let me know what you think. Any suggestions or advice is welcome. I'm going to keep working on it.

Cults consist of the following 7 elements – Runes, Common Magic, Advanced Magic, Myths, Skills, gifts and duties.

1 to 2 Runes that his cult will be associated with.

Common Magic spells
Advanced Magic
myth
5 skills
gift.

You have 8 Cult Points.
1. Choose 1 or 2 runes that the cult is associated with, this does not cost a point.

2. Choose Common Magic spells, each spell is 1 cult point.

3. Choose what kind of advanced magic the cult will use, every Divine or Sorcery Spell costs 1 point. Every spirit for Spirit Magic costs 1 point.

4. Every Myth costs 1 point.

5. Choose 5 skills to be cult skills. Divine Pace, Lore (Specific Theology), Manipulation, Sorcery (Grimoire), Spirit Binding and Spirit Walking are already included. The first 5 skills are free, each one after that costs 1 point per skill.

6. Choose gifts, bonuses, or advantages that the cult has or gives.

7. Choose duties, for every duty depending on its severity or difficulty can earn 1 or more Cult Points for further development of the cult.

Hyperion the Sun God
Fire, Law

Common Magic— Cauterize, Ignite, Fire Blade (3 CP)

Advanced Magic(Divine)--- Blessing, Reflection, Resurrect, Sun Spear (4 CP)

Myth--- Sun’s Glory (Resonance 60%) Obey the Emperor, live honorably, show no fear. (1 CP)
Traitor’s Folly (Resonance 75%) Never betray your people, follow the law. (1CP)

Cult Skills--- Athletics, Resilience, Courtesy, Sing, Sword and Shield style.

Gift--- Rune Lords receive a steel sword and shield for dedicated service. (1 CP)

Duties--- Defend temples of Hyperion (No Point Bonus, it’s a pretty basic duty of all cults) Never Surrender in Combat (3 CP Bonus).

 

[Vagni]

Not a bad system at all.

I've just compared it to the Cult of Humakt in CoG and worked it backwards. Assuming 'cannot be resurrected' is a duty that earns an extra 3 points, this means the cult used, arguably, around 10 to 11 points:

5 for Common Magic (I have assumed 'Oath of Ordeal' is a misprint from MRQI)
6 for Divine (although not counting 'Shield' from an allied cult)
1 myth at 65%
1 extra skill (assumed 'all sword combat styles' counts as one skill here)
0 for Gifts as they always come with a Geas - so they 'cost as you buy'.
-3 for duty, may never be Resurrected (gaining an extra 3 points)

I've assumed 'Oath of Ordeal' is a misprint and also I've not counted 'Sense Assassin' as a cult skill as it's only gained by a Gift/Geas. I've also not accounted for the possibility of gaining one of the Ten Swords. There are also the bonuses to sword skill when fighting undead.

As Humakt is a long established (at least Dawn Age) and widespread cult it's fair to say they would have acquired a few extras to the cult over the years so this seems to pan out okay I'd say.

That said I also looked quickly at Issaries and got 16 points and Vinga for 13! It's a hard one to hit as every cult is very different and many simply aren't meant to balance out, especially in the Glorantha setting, but your system is still very workable and a great basis for fleshing out a new cult. Lore/Trading/Healing type cults often seem to gain more skills and spells as well.


A couple of suggestions I throw in the mix (that I've not massively though out I will admit):

Maybe allow cults who embody two runes to have an additional 1 or 2 cult points. This tends to reflect their ability to call on more magical forces perhaps.

Allow more free cult skills, say 6 and count 'any sword' type skills as just one skill. Or maybe reduce skills to 1/2 a point each.

Maybe reduce the points cost of common magic, perhaps 1/2 a point per spell?

Allow each cult one free myth at a base resonance of 50%, then roll 1D12x5 and add this to give a range of 55 to 110% (this is the typical range across most cults in CoG). Additional myths cost points as above, maybe at a base resonance of 50 plus 1D4x5% or 1D6x5%.

Maybe allow allied cults to grant a skill or spell at a reduced cost, I would suggest 1/2 a point but this would make the other half hard to spend! (but see common magic suggestion above). Not sure how best to do that one really.

Not all cults grant the 'standard divine' spells on top of their own cult spells (these are: Behold, Blessing, Consecrate, Dismiss Magic, Excommunication, Extension and Soul Sight). Perhaps allow such cults an extra point or two back to account for this.

Maybe allow a bonus to points based on the age of the cult. 0 if its a new cult and 1 extra point for each 'age' it goes back? I'm sure some of the Godlearner sympathisers on here can help you with that one. :wink:

Maybe make the initial cult points based on a roll such as 6+1D4? or even more for Gloranthan cults?


I like your idea, I've seen a few posts on here where people are trying to invent new cults and are a little unsure of any guidelines, so this could prove useful.

 

[cthulhudarren]

<closely following this topic>

<thinks of working on a Norse cult>

 

[Vagni]

<closely following this topic>

<thinks of working on a Norse cult>

I don't have Vikings (yet!) but I should have said the above suggestions were based largely on Glorantha which is a magic rich world. ..and Divine/Spirit cults at that...I suspect sorcery orders would throw up other issues too...

For all things Norse myth I can highly recommend Rudolf Simek's 'Dictionary of Northern Mythology'.

 

[Vagni]

Here's my stab at this based firmly on daxos232's model above. This is a Glorantha based cult format and is biased toward divine and spirit cults (sorcery cults are a can of worms I'll leave for someone else):

Cults vary greatly in power and influence, decide (or roll randomly) on your new cults power as below to determine the cult strength:

Weak - 1 to 5 Cult Points, e.g. Eiritha, Foundchild
Average - 6 to 10 Cult Points e.g. Kero Fin, Kolat
Strong - 11 to 15 Cult Points e.g. Vinga, Magasta, Humakt
Powerful - 16 to 20 Cult Points e.g. Yelmalio, Orlanth Adventerous
A few, rare cults may exceed these point values (e.g. Pamalt is around 29), but they are often divided in to several sub-cults and so restrict the power available to an individual worshipper. It may be better to determine sub-cults separately.

Spend Cult Points (CP) as follows:

Runes
A cult automatically gains one appropriate rune, any additional runes costs 1CP. A maximum of 3 may be selected.

Common Magic
Common Magic may be selected for the cult at a cost of 1CP per spell.

Advanced Magic
Cults are assumed to use the 'standard divine spells'. If they do not (by their nature this includes Spirit Cults) then they gain +2CP's to spend elsewhere.
Additional advanced magic costs 1CP per divine spell or per Intensity of available spirits.

Myths
The cult gains an initial myth at a Resonance of 50 plus 1D12x5% for free.
A second myth may be bought at a cost of 1CP with a Resonance of 50 plus 1D6x5%.
A third may be bought for 1CP with a Resonance of 50 plus 1D3x5%.

Cult Skills
The cult may have up to 5 skills free of charge. Additional skills cost 1CP each.
Cult skills such as Lore (Cult) and Pact (Cult) are free for Divine cults, Spirit Walking and Spirit Binding are free for Spirit Cults.

Gifts and Abilities
Additional cult gifts and abilities may be purchased at a cost of between 1 to 3CP's. Examples include:
A list of Gifts with appropriate Geases/Compulsions - costs 1 or 2 CP's dependant up on strength.
A boost to some skill up on attaining a certain rank (e.g. Humakti initiates gain +5% to any Sword style - 1CP.
Immunity or resistance to something - (e.g. Kolati gain +20% to Resilience versus disease) 1 or 2CP's dependant up on power.
Gain Heroic Ability from cult - 2CP's.

Duties and Compulsions
Many cults require specific duties or compulsions be followed. Some of these may be restrictive and grant a bonus number of CP's back to be spent elsewhere. These vary tremendously and must be rated on a scale of 1 to 3 bonus CP's depending up on their effect. For example Humakt cultist may not be resurrected, thus they gain +2CP's. Some cults may forbid a spell or two and so gain 1CP etc.

Allied Cults
Some cults gain skills or magic from allied cults, these generally cost 1CP per allied cult.


I think that's it. I've kept it to full Cult Points rather than complicate things with half points. The system is still pretty flexible and still follows daxos232's original model.

Many thanks to daxos232 for the idea. I Hope my 2 Silvers worth are welcome... :wink:

 

[cthulhudarren]

That's good, Vagni! Personally I like them to be a little more balanced. Or at least balanced by the power of the deity aspect. Odin for example could encompass several cults, each of which are roughly equal in power, and each roughly equal to another diety aspect cult.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[Vagni]

That's good, Vagni! Personally I like them to be a little more balanced. Or at least balanced by the power of the deity aspect. Odin for example could encompass several cults, each of which are roughly equal in power, and each roughly equal to another diety aspect cult.

Just thinking out loud.

I agree totally for 'alternate Earth'/historical cults, daxo232's original model is probably closer to the mark to design these. Odin could well encompass several different, effectively separate sub-cults (like Orlanth in Glorantha) while the more direct Thor would probably only have one.

The Glorantha cults are quite tricky, working the above backwards to the cults in 'Cults of Glorantha' results in anything from Cult Point's of 5 to about 35 - the Pamalt chieftain cult is pretty powerful for example, weighing in with around 30 points, whereas Foundchild wobbles around 5-7 points. Most cults that are 'adventurer friendly' seem to fall in the 'average' to 'strong' scale of points - hence the suggested scale based on initial cult power.

I reckon about 10 to 12 Cult Points would be a good start for a well balanced cult using my suggested modification above. I'm not sure how this applies to Elric or any other MRQII settings.

Anyone brave enough to tackle the Gloranthan Sorcery orders?!? :lol:

 

[Mugen]

In RQ3, there was a list of Divine Magic spells available to all cults.
Almost half the list in the core rulebook was in this list.

I think it would be a good thing to do so for MRQII.

 

[Vagni]

In RQ3, there was a list of Divine Magic spells available to all cults.
Almost half the list in the core rulebook was in this list.

I think it would be a good thing to do so for MRQII.

There is in MRQII as well, it's in 'Cults of Glorantha'.
The 'standard divine' spells are: Behold, Blessing, Consecrate, Dismiss Magic, Excommunication, Extension and Soul Sight.

I have no idea if other RQ settings use a similar system or not.

 

[Exubae]

Nice ideas, but one thing you don't seem to be considering is a how the cult sits into a society, and what support is given and expected in return.

Warrior cults tend to protect society and recieve payment in kind.
Societies can only support a relatively low proportion of its population as full-time warriors.
Farmer cults feed the society and recieve protection from the warriors of the society. As long as you've land farmers are always needed.

Weak - 1 to 5 Cult Points, e.g. Eiritha, Foundchild
Average - 6 to 10 Cult Points e.g. Kero Fin, Kolat
Strong - 11 to 15 Cult Points e.g. Vinga, Magasta, Humakt
Powerful - 16 to 20 Cult Points e.g. Yelmalio, Orlanth Adventerous

It seems odd that Eiritha is a weak cult when her role in her society is so important - No herd beasts no life in Prax.

Logically you'ld think the cult with the larger base of followers would have higher ratings/provide the more potent magic:

Weak - Associated cults - Horned Man Spirit traditions
Average - War cults/Specialists - Issaries/Lhankhor/Humakt/Yelmalio
Strong - Crop/Land/Farming/Craft gods/Stormbull
Powerful - Ruling gods of Pantheon - Yelm /Orlanth/Ernalda/Eiritha/Waha
i.e farming and food production gods.

As I mentioned this is split is more to do with the number of worshippers that support them... but it doesn't make fun roleplaying.

Sorry if this sounds a bt confused... a late night and long afternoon/

 

[Vagni]

No, that makes perfect sense. In reality my 'cult strength' should perhaps read 'cult playability value' :lol:

The cults place in society is not an easy one to define. A 'weak' cult may still be an essential cult for a particular society as you say.

Grain Goddesses are a good example in Glorantha, they have thousands of followers but they only rate as a 10 cult point cult. Their use as a player cult is fairly limited. But without them everyone starves!

The Pamalt chieftan cult rates as a 30 odd pointer but is restricted to only clan chieftans, so only 1 or 2 members over a region.

Reminds me of a scene in Seven Samurai where one of the Samurai has a go at a farmer who wants to be a warrior. He tells him he's the brave and valiant one, working all weathers and breaking his back to feed his family.

It's an unavoidable oddity of a system trying to put all the Gloranthan cults in to a points system. Hopefully it's still usable as a basis to design your own.

 

[daxos232]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

I'm going to work on this more over the weekend if time permits. The system wasn't specifically made for Glorantha, that already has great cults for players to join. I was trying more for the homebrew settings where it takes a lot of time for GMs to make cults for players to choose from.

I think common magic will only cost half a CP like Vagni suggested. I don't know if I will use the "cult strengths". Exubae had it right as to what I was going for.

 

[Vagni]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

I'm going to work on this more over the weekend if time permits. The system wasn't specifically made for Glorantha, that already has great cults for players to join. I was trying more for the homebrew settings where it takes a lot of time for GMs to make cults for players to choose from.

I think common magic will only cost half a CP like Vagni suggested. I don't know if I will use the "cult strengths". Exubae had it right as to what I was going for.

I think your system would be great for homebrew settings or even alternate Earth settings, Gloranthan cults have a lot of oddities that don't fit it too well. Please post it again for us once you've had a play with it. :