Core Rulebook Crew Question 1 Medics

[alex_greene]

At a pinch, everyone who can, can be drafted in to operate a ship's turret weapons. Point and shoot. With sufficient training, anyone can earn Gunner-0. If the ship has something more exotic, like screens, you're probably going to need a qualified gunner - but that is the subject of an entirely different topic.

Similarly, if every crewman got basic Engineer-0 and Mechanic-0 training, they could be drafted in to help out during those quiet moments when all hands can be called to duty to clean out the waste sumps or scrub the air filters.

But Medics require a license to practice. Even a basic Medic-0 needs a First Aid certificate. And qualified commercial pilots and astrogators need to have earned their wings: there's no room for a Wash in the Traveller universe.

This means that it's probably easier to recruit gunners and mechanics from among the crew when they're needed than to get bodies to supplement the on-call medical staff on the crew roster.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello BP,

Yep, I agree that Mongoose's approach of using a table that makes the
requirements easier to figure out.

One thing I've noticed is that when Mongoose ported over some of the
material from CT pieces got dropped. As mentioned the crew table text
on Core Rulebook p.113 states that a single scout can operate a 100 dTon
scout ship, but the Minimum column shows that a pilot and an engineer
are required. This is an example of what I mean by things were dropped
when bring the rules from CT to Mongoose. In CT: Book on p.16 an
engineer is required on starships greater than 100 dTons. Personally, I
think an engineer should be required on either a system ship or starship
since they both have a power plant and a maneuver drive.

Having a pure navigator/astrogator is a probably a bit of overkill, however
an Astrogator/Navigator with one or more secondary skills is how I've
interpreted the rule. I believe one of the Traveller rule sets states that
system ships don't need a navigator/astrogator since the pilot has the skill
set set required. Thinking about this just reminded me of another rule
from one of the rule sets that there were jump tapes that could be used
with the navigation/astrogation computer. Now all I have to do is find
the source documents :roll: . Anyone got an good shovel I can barrow
I think the books are at the bottom of a very tall stack of books. :lol:

I don't know about you but I like the idea of having a real live
navigator/astrogator in case the computer, as a plot by the GM, takes
a vacation. I'll confess that this has been done to me in more than one
adventure. I thought the idea was so good I used the computer failure in
a SpaceMaster scenario. Oh, I almost forgot to mention one of the
players happened to be a Traveller GM that used the plot device on me.

Don't know what reference you had, but to my knowledge the USN,
even in WW II had corpsman stationed on most of the ocean going
vessels. Of course they were and sometimes still are referred to as a
Pharmacist Mate or Assistant. Carriers, then and now, have medical
facilites that are staffed by medical professionals. The size of the medical
facility and staffing gets smaller with the size of the vessel.

I can't really say anything about how not having the right skills
affects combat since I'm sad to admit I haven't looked at the
Combat rules yet.

Thanks again for the comments.

 

[BP]

The engineer requirements are not hard to justify - except in the case of planet-side to orbit and inter-station type ships, most hauls in system will require quite some time during which a power plant and maneuver drive can fail leaving one stranded - so an engineer is definitely a must have for most ships.

In my TU computers are a requirement for making a jump (hence the rule requirements), so no computer = no jump.

That's not just a navigation issue - but given the time it takes to make a jump, one must presume that it is not just point and press the button. With the 100 diameter rule - I always presumed that the intervening matter had to be taken into account - thus requiring a database and computer. So much so that Astrogation would really be useless without a computer. YMMV.

(And the 'jump tape' thing sounds very familiar... again kinda dating the CT era)

As for the WW II reference - to be sure, my source was probably not ocean going (which would be more relevant to Traveller) - was probably a PT boat or some such... Point was there was no dedicated crew member as such for medical needs. Given the long trips and lack of quick rescue means having a doctor aboard might be sane for even small vessels - then again a low berth may suffice (assuming critical crew aren't being frozen).

I'm kinda on the fence here - I watched a lobster/crab 'reality' show recently were the crew could be seriously injured given the nature of the job - and it seemed pretty remote and not likely to result in quick medical care (not enough room for a helicopter landing, and in rough seas and freezing temps a pickup would seem extremely risky). Didn't seem to be any dedicated medical staff, or even facilities - simple first aid only.

For my part - I would go for the autodoc or at least a skilled crewmember (maybe non-dedicated) regardless of the vessel size/occupancy. But then, I do have a tendency to over-address risks .

 

[snrdg121408]

Morning (PDT) BP,

I am having a issues with clicking on the wrong buttons when I replied to
a question and now when I attempted to edit my last reply sorry about
that. I noticed that the nasty web gremlins changed confess to confuse so
I wanted to make the correction. Okay back to the topic.

Some of the short duration planet-side to orbit and inter-station type
ships may have a position called "flight engineer" similar to what aviation
uses or used.

Still haven't dug up the book referencing jump tapes but I'll post the
document info when I find the text.

Again in one of the Traveller rule sets, which one I can't remember and
will post the appropriate info when found, mentions that a jump can be
calculated by the navigator or astrogator but takes considerably longer
than having a computer do the job. Reminds me of a short story titled
'Midshipwoman Honor Harrington' in which she, as well as the 3 other
snotties on their midship persons cruise, had to calculate re-entry to
normal space using a hand calcultor and other math skills.

In theory, just like all sailors know how to swim :wink: , one or more
of a PT boat crew had Medic or more advanced first aid skills something
like what special force units have today. Not to mention that they had
a first aid manual that could be used. Your right that there was no
dedicated medical staff on board, in theory appropriately staffed
facilities where available back at the base of operations.

Yep, I've watched bits and pieces of the show which I think is titled
"Deadliest Catch" or something similar on the Discovery channel. On a
couple of episodes injuries occurred that required the boat in question
to head for the nearest port to get medical care. Having to head to port
is not good during the fishing season.

I'm not saying that an autodoc is not a good idea, however there still
has to be a crew member trained to do basic first aid and cover for
what the autodoc may not be able to handle. Or if the GM and/or random
roll of the dice damages or heaven forbis :shock: destroys the autodoc.

Thanks as always for the reply.

 

[BP]

Some of the short duration planet-side to orbit and inter-station type ships may have a position called "flight engineer" similar to what aviation uses or used.

I like that!

Still haven't dug up the book referencing jump tapes but I'll post the document info when I find the text.

It's there - in fact just last night I was looking at this (great site btw). He actually references 'training tapes', copies, tape eating (ah the good old days), and manual calcs.

...a jump can be calculated by the navigator or astrogator but takes considerably longer than having a computer do the job....

Yep (assume tables have to be looked up in place of database) - but my view is that the jump can't take place without the computer! So the skill is pretty academic except in the most extreme of circumstances - so there is no standing need for a navigator (any more than there would be a requirement for say a 'Jump-space Theorist' on board).

Reminds me of a short story titled
'Midshipwoman Honor Harrington'...

I remember that one

In theory, just like all sailors know how to swim :wink: ...

Yeah - one would hope that modern navies teach swimming and water rescue (seem to recall that even in WW II, may sailors couldn't swim - not that it mattered much in freezing waters).

I think is titled "Deadliest Catch" or something similar on the Discovery channel...

Indeed - that's the one.

I'm not saying that an autodoc is not a good idea, however there still has to be a crew member trained to do basic first aid and cover for what the autodoc may not be able to handle...

I feel that many crew members (especially engineering, cargo handling) would fill this role - especially with military backgrounds. Human doctor would have only a mobility (go to the patient) advantage (i.e. when sophont is impaled and cannot be extracted without bleedout - so extra time spent cutting free would be required and difficulty in maneuvering to autodoc.)

Or if the GM and/or random roll of the dice damages or heaven forbis :shock: destroys the autodoc.

Or the good doctor! Same result - though the crew may be able to repair the autodoc - who's gonna fix the doctor - not nobody (ehr... sorry Firefly fanism is showing)....

On another note... seems to me even a pilot is rather redundant in many cases - in the 80's the B1 bomber could complete its mission and return to base even in the event of its crew perishing! And the Soviets successfully launched their own version of the shuttle crewless. In system especially, crewed ships seem superfluous for civilian and commercial needs. Looked at that way - the engineer is the most crucial member on the ship. Just something to ponder...

 

[snrdg121408]

Afternoon BP,

I'm glad that I've added a new title or crew position for YTU with flight
engineer.

To save myself from being buried when the stack of books falls on me,
the one I'm looking for is probably either on the bottom or
somewhere :wink:, could you provide the the book title for jump tapes.

Never mind I think I found one reference in CT: Book 2 that also
references CT: Book 3 Worlds and Adventures. So far the book stack
hasn't fall over :lol:

Apparently the Imperial government requires navigators/astrogators
just like they require pilots. Again I recall reading the text in one of the
books, but not which one or a page number. I really must have to much
info crammed in my brain

Cold is just one of the problems involved with swimming. Another is sea
critters that eat just about anything. In the tropics heat is another factor
when being exposed. Of course the Navy does teach you how to make
a floatation device from your trousers.

Thinking about the engineers I knew in the Navy and some after retiring
I don't see a majority of them as really suited for a medic. Keeping the
autodoc running is a totally different story and well within an engineer's
area of interest.

You have a point about the doc killing the autodoc, I'm glad you weren't
a GM for a gaming session I was in. You are not a nice GM :wink: I
think. I wasn't able to watch Firefly but I now own the series DVD, movie,
and the RPG book. I've only managed to watch the first episode and
caught bits and pieces of the movie on one of the cable channels. But,
I did catch the language, though I can't speak it yet.

I think CT: Scouts is were I read that the Imperium required a human
pilot on the Express Boat, unfortunately I can't seem to find the text.

The jump drive engineer is the most critical crew member on a starship.
If I recall correctly there is no overt requirement for engineers on
non-starships in most Traveller versions.

have a good one,

 

[BP]

...Of course the Navy does teach you how to make
a floatation device from your trousers. ...

In scouts (not the Traveller variety) I remember having to jump in at 16 feet depth and turn shirt and trousers into airbag floats - jumped in and opened belt to untuck shirt... bad idea as halfway out of long sleeve shirt pants began falling down towards that 16 foot bottom! After a lot of water treading and underwater cursing - I managed to be the last one out of the water...

You have a point about the doc killing the autodoc, I'm glad you weren't a GM for a gaming session I was in. You are not a nice GM :wink: I think.

I like to think of myself as a Challenging GM...

I wasn't able to watch Firefly but I now own the series DVD...

I was quoting a line from Mal in the last episode on the series DVDs - Objects In Space. Can't say as how I'm understanding your problem with the language...

I think CT: Scouts is were I read that the Imperium required a human pilot on the Express Boat, unfortunately I can't seem to find the text.

Don't think that is the place - though it does mention staffing various express boat tenders along the routes. The comment is familiar though - so I bet it is in the early CT books...

 

[cbrunish]

Some thoughts on the medic situation. Going with the rules that seemed to imply that a doctor had to have at least medic-2, this would lead me to believe that a nurse or paramedic would have medic-1 and an emergency medical technician would have medic-0.

And towards the 1 per 120 rule, this would have to change with ships's troops. Depending on the type of troops the number of medics would change. In the field artillery battalion (US Army) it was supposed to have 13 medics and a physian assistant. This roughly put gave a ratio of 1 medic per 33 soldiers. In an infantry unit it breaks down to approx 1 medic per 10 soldiers.

Just some thoughts.

 

[BP]

I like your definitions for EMT, nurse/paramedic to Doctor.

The rules should have been more specific on the definition of Medic - I concur with your Medic-2 from Core pg 6 and the skill definition on pg 56, though the medical care DM on pg75 seems to contradict this.

Regards the 1/120 'rule' (more of a guideline) - it is 1 per 120 passengers. It would seem prudent for troops to have a much higher ratio..

MGT HG does emphasize medical assignments in Naval Support careers and mention medic in the crew skills of capital ships - hopefully Hammer's Slammers addresses troops medical staffing...

 

[The Chef]

a medic 3 is classified as a surgeon (iirc somewhere in the book)

it would make sense for a emt to be medic 0 nurse/paramedic medic 1 and so on.

at least thats how i imagine it

Chef

 

[BP]

I though I saw that someplace too - but couldn't find it... (and knowing me its something I saw in the 80's)

Be nice to know were that reference is - maybe somebody with the PDF co search for 'surgeon'...

 

[rust]

It is in the Mongoose Traveller core rulebook. However, I only have the
German version of this one, so I have to try to retranslate: The referen-
ce is in a box titled "Skill Levels and their Meaning" (or something like it)
in the chapter "Skills and Actions" (or something like it).

 

[BP]

In the English version, Core pg 51, there is a 'Skill Levels and What They Mean' boxed section which has 'Medic 2 could be a doctor...Medic 4 is a famous surgeon or specialist' implying that Medic 3 is a surgeon.

This same text appears on pg 6 under Skills.

Curious if the German version states this differently...

 

[rust]

Curious if the German version states this differently...

No, it could well be a literal translation.

 

[cbrunish]

In the old CT rules a surgen was a medic-3 with a dex of an 8. But then a doctor was a medic-3.

 

[snrdg121408]

Howdy cbrunish,

Thanks for the thoughts concerning medics.

I'm not sure I agree that an EMT would have a skill level of Medic-0.
The basic first aid training I received as a Boy Scout and in the Navy
would be in my opinion Medic-0. The EMT has more advanced training
than a Boy Scout but less than either the Nurse or Paramedic. Is the
information about the Doctor in the Core Rulebook? If not which book
is the information in?

Technically ship's troops/marines are passengers, which could mean that
the current 1 medic to 120 passengers can be applied to them. I don't
have any of my ground force, Traveller or real world, sources at
hand, but I seem to recall that 1 medic per USMC platoon is the most
often mentioned ratio. Isn't a platoon about 20 people? If the platoon
strength is about 20 then this is about the same ratio that MT requires
for low berth passengers.

 

[snrdg121408]

Howdy BP,

Thanks for the page references, I guess I should have checked out your
post first.

Yep, I hope the gorund pounder source book clears up the medic question.

 

[BP]

I'm not sure I agree that an EMT would have a skill level of Medic-0.

Oops - somehow I read cbrunish's post as:
Medic-1 = EMT/Nurse/Paramedic
Medic-2 = Doctor

I would concur with the Medic-0 being basic first aid, bedpan changer...

I put EMT with Paramedic simply because that was the role they filled in one city I lived in (though they had less training/experience). One impact of a D6 RPG is each DM is a sizeable modifier - so that each level of skill represents a good-sized range of experience/training.

 

[atpollard]

I would concur with the Medic-0 being basic first aid, bedpan changer...

Medic-0 might be better than that. They can roll to stop the bleeding from an axe wound or a gunshot, so that might put it closer the the emergency first response training of a police officer.

In general, MgT characters gain less than 1 skill per year (and slightly more than 1 skill per 2 years), so even the humble skill-0 could represent (on average) up to a year of training and experience.

 

[BP]

This is exactly what I meant (bed changer was a joke ) - about the range of experience each level represents (basic first aid should cover Police training, while EMT would be bottom end of Paramedic training)...