Consensus on counters continued

[mrambassador1]

Hi all,
The earlier poll on round or rectangular counters has enough votes now and there are a lot of good comments so I think it might be time to suggest a few other factors for the counters.

The vote seems pretty even as to circle or rectangular counters and most people don't mind either way. The general idea seems to be as follows.

Square or round (doesn't really matter will go with square as its probably a little easier to manufacture) counters printed on plastic (preferably) or thick cardstock (cheaper to produce and still very good) using an above photo of the mini with the arc and boresight markings only visible on the edges of the counter (ie not obscuring the ship). The counters would be better with about 3 different sizes (patrol-skirmish, raid-battle, war-armageddon) reflecting the relative size of the ship, not PL or mini size (eg a white star would be a small counter not medium even though its raid, and explorer would be on large counter) however most ships of a given priority level are about the same size as each other (most raid are about the same as each other and bigger than patrol, most war are bigger still), but if a ship is different size to most in PL the counter should match the ship not PL.

So what are your votes, do we all roughly agree on this.

 

[Blu_Majik]

i like burgers 3-d ones.

 

[mrambassador1]

Yeah that looked awesome, but it could be a bit expensive-difficult to manufacture every ship for that. with the counters all they really have to do is take a photo and print it on some thickish cardboard (or plastic if not too expensive.

Also I am assuming the counter set will be sold as a complete set (every ship of every race x5) or else sold by race (every Centauri etc ship x5)

 

[Burger]

Yeah that looked awesome, but it could be a bit expensive-difficult to manufacture every ship for that. with the counters all they really have to do is take a photo and print it on some thickish cardboard (or plastic if not too expensive.

Not really; its just 3 bits of double-sided card for a Sharlin, and they can be arranged to save space ... not much more than regular counters, really.

 

[Shadow Queen]

warmachine style counters

 

[WereRogue]

warmachine style counters

Yeah, I'd love to see the felt-backed, glossy plastic counters that GF9 produces used. My only problem with that is that if you play on a felt cloth surface, it'll be hard to move the ships. But, by the same token, they also won't get knocked around as easily.

But, my question is why a photo of the miniature? Why not a high-quality digital reproduction of the top of the ship. Something like we might find on b5tech.com or http://www.shipschematics.net/b5/? To me, that would look much better than photos of the miniatures.

Just my $.03.

-Ken

 

[Triggy]

Photos or good pictures wouldn't be an issue to me and the shape isn't really important (I would prefer round to be consistant with the bases but appreciate cost and waste issues) but I really would like the arc lines to go all of the way across the counter. This makes things much easier to gauge at a glance than small marks at the edge of the counter.

 

[ShopKeepJon]

What I'd like to see is a counter that is easy to use and that is visually appealing.

A round counter is easier to use when making turns. Just put your finger on the point at the edge of the counter marking your maximum turn and then spin the counter to the appropriate place.

With a round counter there is more room to print clear firing and turning arcs.

I don't think that the arc lines should cross over the ship since it would detract from the image.

I also think that the counters should be thick enough that fumble fingered gamers won't have trouble manipulating them. 3mm wood or plastic discs should be good enough.

In another thread I posted a rough idea of what I'd like to see. I repeat it here for ease of reference.

ShopKeepJon

 

[darklord4]

3mm wood or plastic discs should be good enough.

If they are released as a PDF, people can put them on whatever they want; wood, metal, cardstock, cereal boxes, spoo(not recommended)

 

[chainmailler]

Are you guys familar with hte pirates card game? the one where the cards piece together into liitle pirate ships? I would really enjoy a counter set like that. It would really add dimesion to the game.

 

[darklord4]

Are you guys familar with hte pirates card game? the one where the cards piece together into liitle pirate ships? I would really enjoy a counter set like that. It would really add dimesion to the game.

Been suggested. There is a patent issue that is being sorted out in the courts(has it been resolved yet?) between Wizkids and WotC. WotC has a patent on the idea and Wizkids preemptively sued them over Pirates stating that the patent is dumb (simplified by my mind).

 

[chainmailler]

so it's out of the question?

 

[chainmailler]

so it's out of the question?

 

[ShopKeepJon]

so it's out of the question?

Mongoose has also stated that their B5 licensing agreement does not allow them to let other companies make miniatures for them. I assume that this would apply to the constructible kind as well... So they can't farm out the work.

Therefore, making the constructible plastic cardstock mini's would require specialized (expensive) equipment that Mongoose would have to acquire.

That and the outstanding patent and lawsuit issues make it pretty clearly "out of the question."

ShopKeepJon

 

[nekomata fuyu]

I'd say to not scale the counters at all, and to just have them all the same size (or maybe have ships and fighters different). Scaling really doesn't make any sense when you think about it, as the ships aren't filling up any of that space anyway - the counter/model is only that big so that you have something that you can see and pick up, and making the counters any larger than necessary just results in the ships getting in each others way unnecessarily when it comes to movement.

If we really do go for scaled counters, then definitely scale them by the actual size of the ship, not by priority level.

 

[BuShips]

Been suggested. There is a patent issue that is being sorted out in the courts(has it been resolved yet?) between Wizkids and WotC. WotC has a patent on the idea and Wizkids preemptively sued them over Pirates stating that the patent is dumb (simplified by my mind).

Hmm, maybe I'll have to see how that lawsuit ends up. If the patent holds up then maybe I'll kick myself for not getting one for my original idea of what I called "Fleet-on-a-Sheet" (tm). I used flat styrene to make cheap 3-D starship kits about nine years back, before either of those companies.

 

[darklord4]

Hmm, maybe I'll have to see how that lawsuit ends up. If the patent holds up then maybe I'll kick myself for not getting one for my original idea of what I called "Fleet-on-a-Sheet" (tm). I used flat styrene to make cheap 3-D starship kits about nine years back, before either of those companies.

Complete awesomeness on those ships. I've been working with basswood to make ships as for my humble skill level, it sands a little easier than the styrene. Though there are some cool textures on those sheets, e.g. the squares etc. Those are wire joining thingies for the cannons?

I have to agree with Wizkids. Seems by the patent that anything that involved even paper foldups would be included. Last I checked, paper was 'substantially planar' as far as a material shape

 

[BuShips]

Those are wire joining thingies for the cannons?

Yep. 3M Scotchlok connectors. :wink: I'll claim that humbly as my idea, as I've never seen anyone else on the 'net do that. If you think about the closest "sci-fi gun" shape to them, it is the defence grid mounted on Babylon 5. The gun mount that has an oval shape to it.

What's also nifty about them is that you can remove the metal interior piece. As long as you do not crimp the plastic pieces together, you can glue the "barbette" to the model and train the turrets at oblique angles. If the ship is not meant so much as a gunship but more as a carrier of torpedo/missile ship you can remove the turret and represent the model more for those purposes.

It really was an "epiphany" one day at the hardware store scouting for bits to use for models that I saw them in that new light. There are two "turret" sizes, perfect for traditional 'primaries' and 'secondaries'. They have a nice duality of looking like naval guns but using energy for their output.

 

[Hash]

At the risk of sounding like a complete muppet....DUDE those look totally awesome, kudos! Please, please, please consider putting together a guide on how you made those... :?:

 

[BuShips]

At the risk of sounding like a complete muppet....DUDE those look totally awesome, kudos! Please, please, please consider putting together a guide on how you made those... :?:

Thanks. I'll give it consideration.

I made up hundreds of them most likely, in two scales (1/1200 & 1/2400). I had made my own rules and they were made up for it. I had pretty much abandoned the rules as there were just better ones out there like Full Thrust. Although they are "squared off" designs, in space you don't need aerodynamics. That's my story anyway. There have been vaguely similar designs used in several series/movies. I'm thinking of the Earth ship in The Fifth Element and in Space: Above and Beyond (the Saratoga).