Confusion with Traveller Skills and Specialities

[Iron Guardian]

I have been wanting to do up a Master Traveller Skill Listing with associated Specialities taken from the Core Rulesbook and the more-in-depth career books (plus any from the various alien sourcebooks). Main problem is the Central Supply Catalog which has broken down the various gun combat and melee combat skill specialities even further than what was given in the core rules, and am unable to find any sources that shed further light on this. A few specialities I have seen seem unnecessary and I doubt I will use them. I was just wondering if I should use what I think makes sense or is there something I am missing. For example, I see no reason for including "slug thrower - carbine" from Mercenary as I don't see a real difference between firing a carbine and firing a rifle other than maybe ammo capacities and recoil. :?

Also, has anybody already done such a comprehensive listing?

 

[rust]

I had such a list, but deleted quite a few of the skills when I adapted the
list to my setting. In my view many of the specialities, especially for the
combat skills, are not necessary and only dilute the overall skill levels of
the characters. So, I obviously think you should use only what makes sen-
se for you.

P.S.: By the way, I also added some skills I considered necessary for my
setting, for example Athletics (Swim).

 

[GamerDude]

I have been wanting to do up a Master Traveller Skill Listing with associated Specialities taken from the Core Rulesbook and the more-in-depth career books (plus any from the various alien sourcebooks). Main problem is the Central Supply Catalog which has broken down the various gun combat and melee combat skill specialities even further than what was given in the core rules, and am unable to find any sources that shed further light on this.

Totally personal opinion here... You will need to look over each specialty and decide for yourself. In looking at Mercenary, the specialty "Drive:Hover" is useful, but "Gun Combat:Slug Carbine doesn't"... note I'm just looking real fast at the skill description and the weapon description/stat tables in Mercenary. All the carbines use the range of either "Rifle" or "Shotgun" and I don't see any comment that the Slug Carbine specialty is required to use the weapons.

As for the specific weapons, that is a matter of looking at the stats (range category, damage, magazine capacity, etc.) and deciding if there is enough difference to warrant the extra weapon.

Also, has anybody already done such a comprehensive listing?

I have a very nicely done single page PDF listing all the skill specialties including Mercenary. Send me a PM with your email and I'll get it sent to you.

 

[AndrewW]

Here's one that was posted on the GMT_Aids list a bit ago:

Admin
Advocate
Animals (Riding, Veterinary, Training, Farming)
Art (Acting, Dance, Holography, Instrument, Sculpting, Writing)
Astrogation
Athletics (Co-ordination, Endurance, Strength, Flying, Archery)
Battle Dress
Broker
Carouse
Combat Engineering (Fortifications, Camouflage, Land Mines, Sensor
Surveillance)
Comms
Computers
Cover Identity (Criminal)
Deception
Diplomat
Discipline
Drive (Mole, Tracked, Wheeled, Hover)
Engineer (M-Drive, J-Drive, Electronics, Life Support, Power, Naval)
Explosives
Flyer (Grav, Rotor, Wing)
Forgery
Gambler
Gunner (Turrets or Bays, Ortillery, Screens, Capital Weapons)
Gun Combat (Slug Rifle, Slug Pistol, Slug Carbine, Shotgun, Energy Rifle,
Energy Pistol, Zero-G Weapons)
Heavy Weapons (Launchers, Man Portable Artillery, Field Artillery.
Flamethrowers)
Investigate
Instruction
Interrogation (Doubletalk, Torture)
Jack of All Trades
Language (Anglic)
Leadership
Life Sciences
Mechanic
Medic
Melee (Unarmed Combat, Blade, Bludgeon, Natural Weapons)
Navigation
Network (Street, Criminal, Corporate, Military, Academic, Media, Politics)
Persuade
Pilot (Small Craft, Spacecraft, Capital Ships)
Physical Sciences
Prospecting
Recon
Recruiting
Remote Operations
Science
- Physical Sciences (Physics, Chemistry, Electronics)
- Life Sciences (Biology, Cybernetics, Genetics, Psionicology)
- Social Sciences (Archeology, Economics, History, Linguistics, Philosophy,
Psychology, Sophontology)
- Space Sciences (Planetology, Robotics, Xenology)
Seafarer (Sail, Submarine, Ocean Ships, Motorboats, Personal)
Security
Sensors
Stealth
Steward
Streetwise
Survival
Tactics (Military Tactics, Naval Tactics)
Trade (Biologicals, Civil Engineering, Space Construction, Hydroponics,
Polymers, Belter)
Trust
Vacc Suit
Weapon Engineering (Drones, Blades, Slug Throwers, Energy Weapons, Heavy
Weapons)
Zero-G (Personal Combat)

Independence (Aslan, page: 32)
Tolerance (Aslan, Page: 32)


Drive (Lawgiver) (Judge Dredd, Page: 49)
Flyer (Personal) (Judge Dredd, Page: 47)
Gun Combat (Lawgiver) (Judge Dredd, Page: 47)
Law (Judge Dredd, Page: 49)
Mega-City One Geography (Judge Dredd, page: 50)
Mega-City One History (Judge Dredd, page: 50)
Street Perception (Judge Dredd, page: 50)

On there already just another source:
Combat Engineering (Fortifications, Camouflage) (Judge Dredd, Page: 47)
Interrogation (Doubletalk, Torture) (Judge Dredd, Page: 47)

Though an older list and doesn't include some of the newer books.

 

[Iron Guardian]

I thought Zero-G Combat specialty was discarded in the errata for Mercenary as unnecessary or something? Oh well. I was also planning to include the Engineering: Psi Equipment from Psion plus the Lore and other Psi skills listed there.

I was also considering a new melee specialty for Flails, Whips, and other similar weapons like nunchuks as I believe they require a bit different handling compared to simple clubs...easier for a novice user to hurt themselves that is...ouch. A GM I know called the specialty "Flexible Weapons." I think I may go with that.

Thanks for the lists!

 

[GamerDude]

apoc527 & Iron Guardian, hope the PDFs I sent you were useful. I probably should put them up on the MGT-Aids@yahoogroups.com files area.

 

[barnest2]

To shed some light on the gun combat:
Shooting what I would call a rifle and a carbine is very different. They weigh different amounts, they are shot in different ways and they regularly are held differently....
Though really, what it should be is Gun combat: (long), Gun combat: (short) and Gun combat: (sniper (or something))... oh and maybe shotgun.
Long would include all slug weapons that are two handed in the rifle or carbine sections.
Sniper is those weapons, like ARMP's and accelerated snipers, which are shot from bi pods, tripods or entrenched positions at very long ranges.
Short is, of course, pistols and one handed SMG's like an uzi...

Make sense?

 

[rust]

Make sense?

I would even delete the "sniper" speciality, firing a sniper rifle is not really
much different from firing any other rifle with a telescope mounted on it.

Oh, and I would not recommend to fire a UZI with one hand only, unless
one intends to frighten the birds flying overhead. :lol:

 

[barnest2]

Make sense?

I would even delete the "sniper" speciality, firing a sniper rifle is not really
much different from firing any other rifle with a telescope mounted on it.

Oh, and I would not recommend to fire a UZI with one hand only, unless
one intends to frighten the birds flying overhead. :lol:

The sniper bit is mainly meant to represent how a sniper rifle is fired, and how one is trained in long range slow shooting, compared to fast-paced 'long weapon' training. designated marksmen (rifle with a scope) would come under rifle, but sniping is very different IMO...
And yeah, maybe not a good plan to shoot an uzi like that... maybe a bad example, but something like a glock... 18? you don't technically shoot them one handed but they are normally considered one handed weapons no?

 

[rust]

The main difference I see between sniper training and normal rifle trai-
ning is that some sniper rifles use a big calibre, and firing them is more
like firing single shots with a heavy machine gun.

SMGs are one hand weapons in Hollywood movies, but those who actual-
ly use them are normally told to use both hands to fire them, because
otherwise their already low accuracy declines to a point where hitting at
more than a few meters distance becomes pure luck.

This guy shows how an SMG is normally held:
http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:USMC_MP5_Submachine_Gun.jpg&filetimestamp=20080125034302

 

[barnest2]

The main difference I see between sniper training and normal rifle trai-
ning is that some sniper rifles use a big calibre, and firing them is more
like firing single shots with a heavy machine gun.

SMGs are one hand weapons in Hollywood movies, but those who actual-
ly use them are normally told to use both hands to fire them, because
otherwise their already low accuracy declines to a point where hitting at
more than a few meters distance becomes pure luck.

I disagree one the sniper. How many privates are trained about breathing correctly, cover, shoot and scoot, windage, range and bullet drop? I think that's what sniper training would really cover, compared too normal rifleman training, which would cover the basic aspects, as well as full auto shooting and the like.

 

[rust]

How many privates are trained about breathing correctly, cover, shoot and scoot, windage, range and bullet drop?

If the privates are infantrymen, at least over here all of them, although
their training is not as elaborate as that of a sniper.

 

[barnest2]

How many privates are trained about breathing correctly, cover, shoot and scoot, windage, range and bullet drop?

If the privates are infantrymen, at least over here all of them, although
their training is not as elaborate as that of a sniper.

I meant to delete cover, of course they are taught cover
Fair enough... Hmmm... I would keep sniper though, due to the... elaborateness? of their training...
I don't know beyond that. Long's, short's, and shotguns maybe? for both slug and energy. And then you get into heavy weapons (my preferred field )

 

[rust]

It is somewhat a matter of taste and personal interpretation, but I use
"Handgun" (pistol, revolver) and "Longarm" (SMG, carbine, rifle, shot-
gun) only, in "Energy", "Sonic" and "Projectile" versions each.

There may well be reasons to differentiate more, but in my view this
tends to dilute the general skills levels of the characters too much, espe-
cially since in my settings the characters usually need a lot of general,
technical and often scientific skills, too - and every level they have to
learn in a combat skill keeps them from learning a level in one of the
other, usually more often needed skills. Someone with, for example, a
mercenary campaign may well prefer a completely different approach.

As for the heavy weapons, my setting does not have many of them, and
they are very setting specific (like a gauss harpoon or a weapon firing
microtorpedoes), so I have to pass on this one.

 

[barnest2]

Fair enough. I do like your setting, having heard about it over the past year or so
I enjoy heavy weapons, but travellers don't get too play with them enough... hence my love of finding reasons for dropping them in warzones to get shelled :twisted:

 

[Iron Guardian]

Well that gives me a lot to "chew" over. My players and I were thinking about how far to go with specialties without certain skills becoming too diluted. I also was considering going the long arms, short arms route as well.

Another idea I have comes from the Aslan sourcebook wherein the Aslan Assassin career included a section on acquiring certain combat techniques IIRC. I was thinking of doing something similar regarding the combat skills to allow for martial arts techniques and grouping them into "sets," i.e. Boxing, Karate, Kung Fu, etc. For wrestling, I will probably keep what is in the book under Grappling.

Thanks again for all the help! That's what I like about the forums is the wealth of info out there from people with backgrounds in science, the military, and so forth.

 

[DFW]

The only things I've rejiggered so far are:

From this:

Drive (Mole, Tracked, Wheeled, Hover)

Flyer (Grav, Rotor, Wing)

Pilot (Small Craft, Spacecraft, Capital Ships)
--------------------------------------------------------------

To this:

Drive (Mole, Tracked, Wheeled)

Flyer (Hover, Rotor, Wing)

Pilot (Grav, Small Craft, Spacecraft, Capital Ships)

 

[GamerDude]

I've posted to the MGT-Aids file area the three files I've been giving to people, as well as we already have many other great aids.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/MGT-Aids/files/

Later
Al B.

 

[Solomani666]

Personally I omitt the Slug Carbine and use Slug Rifle for both carbines and rifles. Also if the weapon has a stock I use the Rifle skill. If it has no stock I use the Pistol skill. The only exception to this is a pistol with an added stock, then I still use the Pistol skill.

I was origionaly trained and and qualified as an expert marksman with an M16 Rifle, and had no problems shooting an M4 Carbine or an M1 Carbine with the same degree of skill after only 15 minutes or less.


.

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

To shed some light on the gun combat:
Shooting what I would call a rifle and a carbine is very different. They weigh different amounts, they are shot in different ways and they regularly are held differently....
Though really, what it should be is Gun combat: (long), Gun combat: (short) and Gun combat: (sniper (or something))... oh and maybe shotgun.
Long would include all slug weapons that are two handed in the rifle or carbine sections.
Sniper is those weapons, like ARMP's and accelerated snipers, which are shot from bi pods, tripods or entrenched positions at very long ranges.
Short is, of course, pistols and one handed SMG's like an uzi...

Make sense?

Sorry, there is no significant difference between using a rifle and a carbine, the principles are exactly the same. Ditto a sniper rifle. All that is needed is a bit of familiarisation with the specific weapon, and you have to do that even if swapping between different types of rifle.

Accordingly, carbine skills, along with zero-grav, is something else from csc and mercenary that we have ignored.

In terms of skills, the more I play MgT, the more I think the core rule book is the thing, and many of the supplements offer few constructive additions.

Egil

Edit to clarify which version of Trav I meant!