Concerning Craft, Profession and Perform

[David St-Michel]

Ok!

This is a bit of a grey area for me.

I understand that Perform is exactly that ; a performance. It proably runs along the lines of (musical instrument), (singing), (dancing), (juggling). And I persume that things that go along the lines of tightrope walking, acrobatics and tumbling would be done with their effective skills.

Profession is a job, I assume. Sailor, blacksmith, chariot racer, etc.

This is where I get stuck. Craft is, I assume again, creating items. Armorsmith, weaponsmith for examples.

But are they interchangeable? If I have an NPC who has Craft (armorsmith), should be also buy Profession (armorsmith)?

What about a journeyman blacksmith? He dosen't actually create armor and weapons, but can do horseshoes, bird cages and such. Would that go into Craft, or Profession? Or both?

Would a leatherworker be a Craft, or a profession, or both?

What about the simple stuff, like a cook or a tailor? Are those considered crafts, or professions?

Thanks for clarifying this up for me.

 

[VincentDarlage]

Pick the one that is most appropriate. A journeyman armourer, even if not allowed to make armour, still has Craft (armour). He still knows the basics, even if the master does not allow it. You don't need Craft and Profession; just one will do. Profession is more of a service industry thing, and craft is more manufacturing. If you are making something, it is probably a craft.

Really, it is a judgement call. Craft is more about knowing something and applying it to make something (INT basis) and Profession is more about customer service (WIS basis).

I would put a leatherworker as a craft. I could see arguments both ways for tailor and cook - and I would allow a character to have Craft (cook) and another to have Profession (cook) - both would be different kinds of cooks with a different emphasis on how they go about it.

 

[DooMJake]

well my rulebook say that "if you want to make an item it is probably a craft skill" so even a blacksmith would have craft(blacksmithing).

On the other hand I would think cooking is more a profession(a service) than crafting a bread for example.

 

[Malcadon]

I never been a fan of Profession skills. It always felt like a useless and redundant skill. The Skill points used with Profession are better spent on related skills: like Craft or Knowledge. If a character has background/side profession, then the player should note that on the PC notes, like the old Secondary Skills Table from AD&D.

 

[kintire]

I never been a fan of Profession skills. It always felt like a useless and redundant skill.

I don't agree: We have managed to get quite a bit of mileage out of Profession: Lawyer. Not all court cases need to end with grabbing the first boat out of the harbour. Profession: Scribe is pretty useful too.

 

[tneva82]

Myself I decided to scrap craft and combine it with Profession. Didn't see need for two skills so closely related to each other. Doesn't make sense you would have Profession(Blacksmith) for example without appropriate Craft skill yet that is doable. And why wouldn't somebody with Craft skill have Profession skill?

I just decided to scrap the craft and assume it comes within Profession skill.

 

[kintire]

Doesn't make sense you would have Profession(Blacksmith) for example without appropriate Craft skill yet that is doable.

Err... no it isn't. There is no such thing as "Profession: Blacksmith". Blacksmith is a Craft.

And why wouldn't somebody with Craft skill have Profession skill?

Why would someone skilled at making things have any expertise in a purely intellectual field?

 

[Spongly]

I never been a fan of Profession skills. It always felt like a useless and redundant skill.

I don't agree: We have managed to get quite a bit of mileage out of Profession: Lawyer. Not all court cases need to end with grabbing the first boat out of the harbour.

By Crom! I've been served a court injunction forbidding me from going within 500 yards of the Temple of the Black Priest of Yogga!

 

[kintire]

By Crom! I've been served a court injunction forbidding me from going within 500 yards of the Temple of the Black Priest of Yogga!

Actually it was more introducing the concept of serial self-defence...

 

[David St-Michel]

By Crom! I've been served a court injunction forbidding me from going within 500 yards of the Temple of the Black Priest of Yogga!

Actually it was more introducing the concept of serial self-defence...

Serial self-defense... Lawyerspeak for "mass-murdering brute".

Or "Sudden and repeated violent deaths by battleaxe to the groin".

...and the list can go on.

 

[groshnik]

I allow PCs who put ranks into Profession to substitute the bonus for interaction or knowledge skills where appropriate. Profession Sailor may be used instead of Knowledge Geography in the areas the Pirate has been. Profession Merchant may be used in place of Appraise for a rare item on the market.
I let the PCs convince me there is enough overlap to allow it. Makes for some great roleplaying situations
Makes Profession a tightly related skill grouping, in a way. Of course, the GM needs to watch what people call a Profession. Adventurer is a bit broad

 

[David St-Michel]

I allow PCs who put ranks into Profession to substitute the bonus for interaction or knowledge skills where appropriate. Profession Sailor may be used instead of Knowledge Geography in the areas the Pirate has been. Profession Merchant may be used in place of Appraise for a rare item on the market.
I let the PCs convince me there is enough overlap to allow it. Makes for some great roleplaying situations
Makes Profession a tightly related skill grouping, in a way. Of course, the GM needs to watch what people call a Profession. Adventurer is a bit broad

"Mitra! My 16 levels of Profession (adventurer) should allow me not only to know the value of that golden goblet, but also the skills to palm it while no one is looking, create a diversion with a bit of grey lotus dust, somersault on the nearest rooftop, and dash away into the night!"

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[groshnik]

For some good storytelling, and a Fate Point, sure, why not

 

[David St-Michel]

Haha.

For a Fate point, I'd let the player run off with the golden goblet after knocking over the closest city guard. Give him maybe a 15 second head start.

After that, he's on his own.

 

[David St-Michel]

I really would appreciate to have a slightly more exhaustive list of what is a Craft, or a Profession.

At least I could give my PCs a few ideas.

Like... What about a tatoo artist? Technically he's creating a tatoo, which is a single piece of art. But would it be a Profession instead?

 

[VincentDarlage]

I really would appreciate to have a slightly more exhaustive list of what is a Craft, or a Profession.

At least I could give my PCs a few ideas.

Like... What about a tatoo artist? Technically he's creating a tatoo, which is a single piece of art. But would it be a Profession instead?

Craft (tattoo).

Any kind of art is probably craft, outside of oratory art.

In the end, just make a decision that sounds reasonable to you. I have had few PCs bother with crafts or professions, and, ultimately, in terms of game play, it really doesn't matter so long as you are consistent.

 

[David St-Michel]

Where as a public speaker would have Profession (public speaker).

Thanks. I appreciate that.

 

[VincentDarlage]

Correct. Or Profession (Orator) or Profession (Story-teller) or ... creating an exhaustive list would be, well, exhausting.

No problem.

 

[David St-Michel]

Correct. Or Profession (Orator) or Profession (Story-teller) or ... creating an exhaustive list would be, well, exhausting.

Best pun I've heard all day.

 

[groshnik]

Some one who can craft herbs, is very useful on an adventure, but may be lost trying to buy or sell. An herbalist (profession) would have the connections for raw ingredients, and know the market prices, but may not be as skilled in the creation of potions and salves.

It probably comes to down-time. If there is a lot of downtime in your campaign, then Profession is a means of income. If not, then it's probably just flavor.

And remember, someone with Profession ranks may get a reputation bonus within those circles...