Conan & the 5' step

slaughterj said:
spydacarnage said:
How about this for a solution...

A 5-foot step does not provoke an attack of opportunity, unless it is combined with an action which does.

Therefore, your fighter can still use it to jockey for position safely, but as soon as the archer steps back to let forth a volley of arrows, he gets a sword in his gut..

Er...if the combined action already does, what difference does it make to mention the 5' step in association with it? Or, do you mean, if the full attack action, e.g., firing a bow next to a melee combatant, would have resulted in an AoO, that if you take a 5' step from the melee combatant to do your bowfire, that the AoO would occur?

That's right.
 
Yuan-Ti,

I personally think that none of your examples should provoke AoOs.

I have done live fantasy roleplay for years, and I am well aware of how skirmish combats worked then.

Two bands of people would meet, and by the end of it, they were nowhere near the same place they started. All the time they would move around slightly to alter their postion. In all situations, however, you never let your guard down just by moving slightly. Even in your 5th example when the PC moves from one opponent to the other. Even though your miniature, or in your case, drawing shows it as if you've just moved straight, in reality, you would step backwards from the left opponent, turn 90 degrees and approach the other one still side on to ensure that you could still defend against either.
 
Actually the ongoing 5' step dicussion reflects two problems in D'n'D design:

1. One-after-another round organization, what in reality isn't plausible. Combat isn't "you go, I go" and the ready action or delay action just cannot solve this. Simply - the 6 seconds my opponent gets are NOT THE SAME 6 SECONDS I get. This is the crucial point - combat isn't simultaneous but "phased". It isn't even "broken-down into small fractions", no, it's just "you go, I go". If someone runs 90 feet per 6 seconds and my character 160, first he gets his "round" (if he won initiative) and then I get one to catch him. But I catch him AFTER he ran his 90 ft. (not during his mid-movement because I move faster). It's simply "his 6 seconds, everything else is frozen" and "my 6 seconds, everything is frozen". Mind you, d20 isn't about "realism". AoO, flanking and loss of facing don't ameliorate this, they just add to the confusion and implausibility.

2. Another question is: how would my nifty-featy archer or precious cared-for mage survive melee without the 5' step? Plausibly - he wouldn't. In all conflicts since the dawn of mankind it's "shoot till they get to us" (maybe 2-3 times) and then "throw away the ranged weapons, now it's close combat". It would be a hard step from the designers on the characters spending every feat on bettering their ranged combat abilities if they would lose this advantage in man-to-man situation, wouldn't it (sarcasm intended)? (BTW do close fighters spending every feat on close conflict specialisation have any meaningful means to handle range situation? I doubt so. It's because of the scale and practicality of the miniature combat to replay situations that are ca. 100' times 100' or whatever fits your table. Which favours close combat specialists if no obstacles are present.) If you re-read REH's stories, ranged weapons do not play an active role in combat (unless mass combat of armies occurs). Using a bow or casting spells (requiring precise gestures or usage of not readied components) if a dedicated fighter is LOCKED IN MELEE with you isn't plausible. Archers or mages in a skirmish situation would simply have to rely on the protection of other characters or have the ranged combat ability only as a supplement to close combat means. Again, d20 rules are designed with the idea to have all classes relatively equally efficient in combat (what says something about the game's priorities). You either have plausibility or playability for all (at least in combat situations). At least from what I understand Conan RPG is about close combat (more than typical D'n'D), what is stated relatively clearly in the class selection.

The two mentioned problems actually cost us our D'n'D gaming group in the end and we moved to other systems and other players. It lies probably with different GNS priorities and expectations, but that's a topic for another discussion.

Bifi
 
Hi Bifi -

(1) yes, this bugs me too! :)
(2) I agree, this supports allowing Conan rules making the 'melee archer' non-viable in Conan even if you feel a need to keep them in D&D.
 
Problem I have with the rule is this:

You can move 30' and attack a medium creature and not provoke an AoO. You cannot however take a 5' step and attack someone without provoking an AoO.

The rule also makes Large+ creatures MUCH more dangerous. Simply put there is no way to melee attack them without provoking an AoO.

It also pretty much negates shield walls, can't cover the gap anymore when a comrade falls.

Of course, if you are just trying to manuevre with 5' steps in combat, you deserve to die anyway.
 
Sorry as written. Your suggestion is almost good, I gues the way I would say to word it is as follows:

A 5' foot step only provokes an AoO when the the following two conditions are met:

1) You leave a square that is threatened.

2) You perform an action that would normally provoke an AoO.
 
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