A
Anonymous
Guest
If you are annoyed that your playes keep flanking, why not have your npc's do the same? Even very low level npc's can become deadly, esp if they are all flaniking and/or have sneak attack.
Conan & the 5' step
- Thread starter BhilJhoanz
- Start date
I see what you mean. In our game, it is simply not possible to do a 5' step between enemies like that. You see, we don't play on a grid. For some reason, we never did. As a result, unless there is actually 1" between the enemy figures, there is no room to slip between them -- much less past them.
Consequently, I applaud the ruling while you curse it. Ironic.
In the picture above, there would be no way to slip *past* the semicircle of villagers to get to the scholars behind. At best, the 5' step would leave you between two villagers, flanked yourself.
Perhaps you want to rule the same way in your game as well: Characters can only take a 5' step between two enemies if there is 5' between the enemies for the PC to slip by.
Consequently, I applaud the ruling while you curse it. Ironic.
In the picture above, there would be no way to slip *past* the semicircle of villagers to get to the scholars behind. At best, the 5' step would leave you between two villagers, flanked yourself.
Perhaps you want to rule the same way in your game as well: Characters can only take a 5' step between two enemies if there is 5' between the enemies for the PC to slip by.
GhostWolf69
Mongoose
This thread just got impossible to read... I'm out.
/wolf
/wolf
spydacarnage
Mongoose
Wolf said:
If we keep posting, the thread will go to four pages, so you'll be able to join in again
GhostWolf69
Mongoose
spydacarnage said:Wolf said:
If we keep posting, the thread will go to four pages, so you'll be able to join in again
That would be fabulous!
/wolf
spydacarnage
Mongoose
Wolf said:
There we go...
I like the ruling proposed here (5' step provokes an AOO if you take an action which does) but I don't like the logic of punishing spellcasters and archers while continuing to allow melee fighters to abuse it. Unless of course you are just trying to eliminate spellcasters and archers as PCs in your game...
Deathdealer
Mongoose
Don't look at it as punishing archers and spellcasters. It is just that they are adapted to fighting at a distance. In the rough and tumble of actual melee they are at a disadvantage because their fighting style places them at one, just as a soldier with a sword is at a disadvantage when facing an archer outside of his reach.
A smart spellcaster will avoid melee like the plague. A smart archer will put aside the bow and draw a melee weapon.
A smart spellcaster will avoid melee like the plague. A smart archer will put aside the bow and draw a melee weapon.
spydacarnage
Mongoose
An AoO is meant to be a situation in combat when you let your guard down. Casting a spell or loading and firing a bow are good examples of this.
The 5ft step is meant to provide a method to simulate the fact that combatants are constantly moving.
Therefore, a fighter making a 5ft step still has their guard fully up, they are just aiming to get to best position, like all the other fighters are. A mage taking a 5ft step is still "in the combat", but is still letting their guard down.
That is why I don't think it is unfair on spellcasters - after all, they cast cast defensively to avoid the AoO as a free action. A fighter tumbling to avoid AoOs has to spend a move action (i.e. no full attack).
The 5ft step is meant to provide a method to simulate the fact that combatants are constantly moving.
Therefore, a fighter making a 5ft step still has their guard fully up, they are just aiming to get to best position, like all the other fighters are. A mage taking a 5ft step is still "in the combat", but is still letting their guard down.
That is why I don't think it is unfair on spellcasters - after all, they cast cast defensively to avoid the AoO as a free action. A fighter tumbling to avoid AoOs has to spend a move action (i.e. no full attack).
This is what I will try, although it is complicated:
-> If you combine a 5' step with an action that normally provokes an AOO, then you provoke an AOO from an opponent
-> If you take a 5' step from a square threatened by opponent A to a square threatened by opponent B, you provoke an AOO.
Using my graphics (AND PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE ME IN A REPLY OR YOU WILL MESS UP THE BOARDS AND ANGER WOLF)
Empty space = :?:
Vacated space = :arrow:
PC = 8)
Opponents = :evil:
Provokes an AOO:
:?: :evil: :evil:
:?: :arrow: 8)
Provokes an AOO:
:evil: 8)
:arrow: :evil:
Does not provoke an AOO:
:evil: :evil: :?:
:?: :arrow: 8)
Does not provoke an AOO:
:evil: 8)
:arrow: :?:
Provokes an AOO:
:evil: :arrow: 8) :evil:
Does not provoke an AOO (unless combined with an action that does):
:evil: :arrow: 8)
Just some thoughts. I know my players will be pissed at any change in their cherished 5' step.
-> If you combine a 5' step with an action that normally provokes an AOO, then you provoke an AOO from an opponent
-> If you take a 5' step from a square threatened by opponent A to a square threatened by opponent B, you provoke an AOO.
Using my graphics (AND PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE ME IN A REPLY OR YOU WILL MESS UP THE BOARDS AND ANGER WOLF)
Empty space = :?:
Vacated space = :arrow:
PC = 8)
Opponents = :evil:
Provokes an AOO:
:?: :evil: :evil:
:?: :arrow: 8)
Provokes an AOO:
:evil: 8)
:arrow: :evil:
Does not provoke an AOO:
:evil: :evil: :?:
:?: :arrow: 8)
Does not provoke an AOO:
:evil: 8)
:arrow: :?:
Provokes an AOO:
:evil: :arrow: 8) :evil:
Does not provoke an AOO (unless combined with an action that does):
:evil: :arrow: 8)
Just some thoughts. I know my players will be pissed at any change in their cherished 5' step.
slaughterj
Mongoose
spydacarnage said:
Er...if the combined action already does, what difference does it make to mention the 5' step in association with it? Or, do you mean, if the full attack action, e.g., firing a bow next to a melee combatant, would have resulted in an AoO, that if you take a 5' step from the melee combatant to do your bowfire, that the AoO would occur?
Arkobla Conn
Mongoose
I almost agree with you...I agree with every example except the second...You PC is in combat with both those NPC's. He takes a five foot step (picture him swinging left, whirling right and putting his gaurd back up, but only now facing the other direction. The combat situation hasn't changed, his gaurd hasn't gone down, he is just in a different spot.
Arkobla Conn
Mongoose
actually, now that you put it that way, I don't agree with the first (without back peddling on the second )
He's in combat with two guys...he sidesteps one npc's attack and is now somewhat to the right....still fighting the same two guys....no AoO
)He's in combat with two guys...he sidesteps one npc's attack and is now somewhat to the right....still fighting the same two guys....no AoO
Arkobla Conn said:actually, now that you put it that way, I don't agree with the first (without back peddling on the second
He's in combat with two guys...he sidesteps one npc's attack and is now somewhat to the right....still fighting the same two guys....no AoO
So, really, the only thing you agree with is:
If you take a 5' step leaving the threatened reach of one opponent and entering the threatened reach of another opponent, you provoke an AOO.
Arkobla Conn
Mongoose
Yes, I think that's it. In my mind, the PC in your examples 1 and 2 have not left the threatened reach, therefore, have not prompted an AoO...
