Conan RPG in 1e AD&D terms...

[Aholibamah]

Consider: Vincent Darlage's writing of the Shadizar setting contains monsters and strange locations--there's no reason why you couldn't adapt this to D&D provided you kept the low magic human-centered aspects of the setting. The Shadizar set contains: a dragon, lizard-men, giants, semi human pgymies, elementals and other odd creatures. There are giant spiders, demons and weird creatures from other worlds in Zamora both according to Howard and the pastiches, so why not?

I own the boxed set too, but knowing that a lot of this monsters come from some very bad pastiches like the awful crap written by S. Perry, I would certainly not include those creatures in my games.

I don't want to start another "pastiche vs REH" argument. I just have the feeling, IMHO, that most of this creatures have nothing to do in Hyboria.

And, of course, I don't have any problem with giant spiders, sorcerers and demons in Zamora...

I dunno, pastiche or not, there is a giant 'dragon' like creature in "Red Nails" which is one of my favourite stories. Certainly the stories have giant flying apes, animated statues, elephant headed alien beings, weird amorphous lovecraftian tittering things and so on. I think having the weirder more isolated monsters is cool, or even odd races in strange isolated locations. You just can't have say freaky monsters or demihumans ordering a drink in a bar. At least not without everyone cursing in horror and reaching for weapons and holy symbols.

My point is, forget the pastiches. I'm certainly trying to. What matters is that all of those creatures could be used in Conan without wrecking the atmosphere.

Karela: this halter and harem pants make me feel like I ain't wearin' nothin'!

Conan:...you're not.

Karela: Damn it!

 

[Valgrim Bragisson]

I compleatly agree with Spectator on ditching AC. Discribing every non-damaging attack as a "miss" is confuseing, and leads to some truly rediculeous mental imagry if taken literally!

MP

 

[rabindranath72]

I have used the rules in the CB1/CB2 module as the basis for an Hyborian setting, with some additions to provide variety in the "races" (adapted from d20 Conan). Few other things are really necessary to convey the Howardian feel. Even the AD&D magic system can be used "as is"; as far as I can tell, nowhere in the REH novels it is implied that sorcerers do not undergo a period of study before casting spells. Furthermore, this study period is concordant with the view of sorcerers as scholars.
The only thing to watch out, is to remove "flashy" and heavy artillery spells; mostly, these are spells which can inflict damage from afar. In general, spells from the Evocation and Alteration schools are those that need strict DM scrutiny. The CB1 and CB2 spellcasting PCs and NPCs contain a wide selection of spells with the right "feel".
Most of the classes in the AD&D PHB can be used "as is", with the possible exception of the Paladin; and perhaps remove the spellcasting ability of Rangers. Monks would only come from eastern countries (e.g. Khitai, Vendhya), as well as Illusionists. Multi/dual class Monk/Illusionists would make a good choice for a sorcerer trained in martial arts and versed in magic (like the Oriental style of magic in d20 Conan).

In accordance with the bleak view of the universe and its "gods", clerics may be allowed strictly as NPCs. They would be seen as sorcerers which are pledged to some demonic entity/religious cult. Gods/demons are only evil, or at most neutral (Crom), and those who impart sorcerous knowledge (read: cleric spells) are only the evil ones.
Druids would be found only amongst the Picts, and take their rituals from Jhebbal Sag.

Even psionics might find good use in such a setting.

Since all races are human, I allow free dual and multiclassing, to represent the varied expertise shown by REH characters. I also strongly recommend the use of secondary skills (in the DMG) to round out the characters; they might be acquired as done for languages, based on the intelligence of the character.

Practically all critters that appear in the REH stories can be found in the MM1; the more specific ones can be found in CB1/CB2 (e.g. Man-apes, serpent people, giant snakes, god in the bowl, Akivasha, crawler in the dark etc.)

Really, AD&D 1e is a good system for doing Conan, as also shown by the fact that Gygax used the stories as reference in writing the game.

As soon as I have time, I will post the racial writeups here.

Cheers,
Antonio

 

[rabindranath72]

the delciious flaggon of wine rule)

There is such a rule in the 1e DMG. Gygax says that characters can recover by taking strong spirits. Very Howardian!

 

[kintire]

In accordance with the bleak view of the universe and its "gods", clerics may be allowed strictly as NPCs. They would be seen as sorcerers which are pledged to some demonic entity/religious cult. Gods/demons are only evil, or at most neutral (Crom), and those who impart sorcerous knowledge (read: cleric spells) are only the evil ones.

Pitching this a bit strong. Mitra isn't evil, and I'm not convinced there's any reason to believe that cults like Anu and Ishtar are either. There's room for good gods (though they play a smaller role, since hopefully you aren't raiding their temples (unless they have something especially cool))

Druids would be found only amongst the Picts, and take their rituals from Jhebbal Sag.

What about the Black Kingdoms and the Hykanians?

 

[rabindranath72]

In accordance with the bleak view of the universe and its "gods", clerics may be allowed strictly as NPCs. They would be seen as sorcerers which are pledged to some demonic entity/religious cult. Gods/demons are only evil, or at most neutral (Crom), and those who impart sorcerous knowledge (read: cleric spells) are only the evil ones.

Pitching this a bit strong. Mitra isn't evil, and I'm not convinced there's any reason to believe that cults like Anu and Ishtar are either. There's room for good gods (though they play a smaller role, since hopefully you aren't raiding their temples (unless they have something especially cool))

Druids would be found only amongst the Picts, and take their rituals from Jhebbal Sag.

What about the Black Kingdoms and the Hykanians?

I referred to gods which granted spells in some way. Sorcery should always be seen as something innatural and inherently evil. Allowing clerics which receive spells from "good" deities would weaken the setting IMO.

I referred to the Picts since it seems it is one of the few instances in which some sort of spellcasting tied to nature and Jhebbal Sag is described (Beyond the Black River). If one wants, he can define druids of other nature-related gods. But in all cases, they would at most be "neutral" deities.

 

[FailedSpotCheck]

the delciious flaggon of wine rule)

There is such a rule in the 1e DMG. Gygax says that characters can recover by taking strong spirits. Very Howardian!

That appears to be untrue:

When any creature is brought to 0 hit points (optionally as low as -3 hit points if from the same blow which brought the total to 0), it is unconscious. In each of the next succeeding rounds 1 additional (negative) point will be lost until -10 is reached and the creature dies. Such loss and death are caused from bleeding, shock, convulsions, non-respiration, and similar causes. It ceases immediately on any round a friendly creature administers aid to the unconscious one. Aid consists of binding wounds, starting respiration, administering a draught (spirits, healing potion, etc.), or otherwise doing whatever is necessary to restore life.


E. Gary Gygax, DMG, p. 82b

This simply states that consumption of spirits ceases the loss of hp, not recovers them.

A Flagon of Wine
A character who is disabled (on exactly 0 hp) may be restored to 1 hp by drinking at least a pint of strong wine or other powerful liquor.


Conan RPG, Atlantean Edition, p. 164b.

 

[Aholibamah]

Actually I don't agree with the idea of gods that grant spells being universally evil. It's just how you apply it. For instance Princess Yasmela is granted a vision from Mitra in "Black Colossus". There is a magical visitation of Belit that saves Conan in "Queen of the Black Coast". I'm aware that these are not spells in the traditional D&D sense but it is also what you could call good magic.

 

[rabindranath72]

the delciious flaggon of wine rule)

There is such a rule in the 1e DMG. Gygax says that characters can recover by taking strong spirits. Very Howardian!

That appears to be untrue:

When any creature is brought to 0 hit points (optionally as low as -3 hit points if from the same blow which brought the total to 0), it is unconscious. In each of the next succeeding rounds 1 additional (negative) point will be lost until -10 is reached and the creature dies. Such loss and death are caused from bleeding, shock, convulsions, non-respiration, and similar causes. It ceases immediately on any round a friendly creature administers aid to the unconscious one. Aid consists of binding wounds, starting respiration, administering a draught (spirits, healing potion, etc.), or otherwise doing whatever is necessary to restore life.


E. Gary Gygax, DMG, p. 82b

This simply states that consumption of spirits ceases the loss of hp, not recovers them.

A Flagon of Wine
A character who is disabled (on exactly 0 hp) may be restored to 1 hp by drinking at least a pint of strong wine or other powerful liquor.


Conan RPG, Atlantean Edition, p. 164b.

Well, I did not wrote "recover hit points", simply "recover", as synonym of "feeling better".

Cheers,
Antonio

 

[rabindranath72]

Actually I don't agree with the idea of gods that grant spells being universally evil. It's just how you apply it. For instance Princess Yasmela is granted a vision from Mitra in "Black Colossus". There is a magical visitation of Belit that saves Conan in "Queen of the Black Coast". I'm aware that these are not spells in the traditional D&D sense but it is also what you could call good magic.

Yes, but Yasmela was not a sorcerer. The "intervention" was outside of her will. To become a sorcerer an act of will is required, and on such will the gods/demons found their religions.

Also, Belit might be seen as a "ghostly apparition" more than a spell (IIRC this is also how it is explained in d20 Conan).

Cheers,
Antonio

 

[Krushnak]

non of the gods grant spells, some just allow sorcerous teachings either directly(demonic gods) or through long held traditions (asura, ishtar). there are no armoured spell slinging clerics in hyboria. just sorcerors and faithful sorcerors.

Princess Yasmela is granted a vision from Mitra in "Black Colossus".

actually the character herself doubts it was really Mitra and thinks it was probably a priests trick, but decides to give it a shot anyway.

There is a magical visitation of Belit that saves Conan in "Queen of the Black Coast".

her love and will were strong enough to allow her to return shortly as a ghost to help him. nothing suggested really that it is good magic or the doings of a good god.

 

[Axerules]

Hello !

Princess Yasmela is granted a vision from Mitra in "Black Colossus".

actually the character herself doubts it was really Mitra and thinks it was probably a priests trick, but decides to give it a shot anyway.

Yes, she doubted, and "decided to give it a shot"...

And a few minutes later, listening to this advice, she finds Conan. The only man able to save her and her kingdom from the nomad horde led by the veiled prophet of Set. Later in the story, REH wrote that she felt being protected only around the big Cimmerian.

The whole beginning scene of BC would be ridiculous if it was "only a coincidence".

 

[rabindranath72]

non of the gods grant spells, some just allow sorcerous teachings either directly(demonic gods) or through long held traditions (asura, ishtar). there are no armoured spell slinging clerics in hyboria. just sorcerors and faithful sorcerors.

It is all a matter of how one interprets the rules. Sorcerous teachings by the gods/demons=cleric casting spells.

 

[kintire]

I referred to gods which granted spells in some way. Sorcery should always be seen as something innatural and inherently evil

When the world was young, and men were weak, and the fiends of the night walked free,
I strove with Set by fire and steel and the juice of the Upas tree.
Now that I sleep in the mount's black heart, and the ages take their toll,
Forget ye him who fought the Snake to save the human soul?

on the great blade, close to the heavy silver guard, the ancient traced with a bony finger a strange symbol that glowed like white fire in the shadows. And on the instant crypt, tomb and ancient vanished, and Conan, bewildered, sprang from his couch in the great golden-domed chamber. And as he stood, bewildered at the strangeness of his dream, he realized that he was gripping his sword in his hand. And his hair prickled at the nape of his neck, for on the broad blade was carven a symbol — the outline of a phœnix

With a cry that was like an echo of Ascalante's death-shriek, he reeled away from the wall and met the leaping horror with a cast of his ax that had behind it all the desperate power of his electrified nerves. The flying weapon glanced singing from the slanting skull it should have crushed, and the king was hurled half-way across the chamber by the impact of the giant body.

And his outflung hand struck something his dazed fighting-brain recognized as the hilt of his broken sword. Instinctively he gripped it and struck with all the power of nerve and thew, as a man stabs with a dagger. The broken blade sank deep and Conan's arm was released as the abhorrent mouth gaped as in agony. The king was hurled violently aside, and lifting himself on one hand he saw, as one mazed, the terrible convulsions of the monster from which thick blood was gushing through the great wound his broken blade had torn. And as he watched, its struggles ceased and it lay jerking spasmodically, staring upward with its grisly dead eyes. Conan blinked and shook the blood from his own eyes; it seemed to him that the thing was melting and disintegrating into a slimy unstable mass.

Allowing clerics which receive spells from "good" deities would weaken the setting IMO.

Howard did not seem to think so.

 

[rabindranath72]

The REH writings do not seem to suggest the consistent existence of cults devoted to good gods which teach "good" sorceries to men. Rather, the case you report (and others I can think of) seem the exception, not the rule. Whereas sorcerous cults for evil ends is a rule, not an exception.
Hence my statement of evil clerical magic.

 

[kintire]

"When the magic of the Mitran priests failed against the magic of Xaltotun's acolyte, Altaro, they remembered the ancient legend of the Heart, and the high priest and an acolyte went down into the dark and terrible crypt below the temple into which no priest had descended for three thousand years.

Bold mine.

 

[rabindranath72]

"When the magic of the Mitran priests failed against the magic of Xaltotun's acolyte, Altaro, they remembered the ancient legend of the Heart, and the high priest and an acolyte went down into the dark and terrible crypt below the temple into which no priest had descended for three thousand years.

Bold mine.

In fact. That's one of the exceptions I was thinking to. More on this later.
It is interesting what Xaltotun has to say about Hadrathus and Asura:

Watch, dog of Asura, false priest of an outworn god

He may say this in spite, or perhaps since he knows that Asura has really no power.

Also, what would be the magic of Mitra? Would it really be taught by the god or would rather be "human" sorcery? Since the Mitraic cult seems so focused on faith, one would be led to believe that no show of power should be necessary at all to believe in the god.
So, in my campaign I made Mitraic priests simply as magic-users practicing ward and protection-type spells which are taught as part of tradition.

 

[kintire]

In fact. That's one of the exceptions I was thinking to

Exceptions? The dominent religion of the Hyborian kingdoms is an isolated exception? I really can't go along with you there!

Sorcery should always be seen as something innatural and inherently evil.

So, in my campaign I made Mitraic priests simply as magic-users practicing ward and protection-type spells which are taught as part of tradition.

Its perfectly true that REH does not distinguish between divine and arcane magic as the game does, but he does have cults devoted to good gods teaching benign sorcery. I think I need a little more clarification as to how the above two quotes, both yours, fit together. You seem to be saying "all sorcery should be evil" and when I argue with that you behave as if I said "magic should be granted by the gods".

 

[rabindranath72]

I am speaking about clerics <=> sorcerers who are taught spells by "entities".

Even admitting that Mitra teaches spells to his followers, he is still an exception: a good deity in a "sea" of demons and evil gods. How many other "good" deities do exist in all the Hyborian kingdoms?

However, I do not think Mitra teaches spells at all, as I said, since in many instances of tales the concept of "faith" is introduced. And true faith is not measured by demonstrations of powers (it is far too easy to believe in miracles if they happen routinely!)
Rather, I treat the priests of Mitra as magic users. They do not go around trying to convert people by showing off Mitra's powers. But use the spells they have to protect.
The same act of granting powers to mortals can be seen as a temptation. Is it not true that sorcery is described as kind of addicting? What about the obsession? Hardly the work of a good deity!

Other gods/demons do not have any compunctions in teaching spells for their own purposes, hence the cleric class associated with sorceries directly taught by evil gods/demons

 

[kintire]

I am speaking about clerics <=> sorcerers who are taught spells by "entities".

I take it that "all magic is evil" was hyperbole then. It was a little confusing. Lets be clear about this: as far as REH is concerned, there is no "divine" magic in the sense used in DnD. Magic works in two ways. Either you wield supernatural powers yourself, or you summon an entity which posseses such powers and get it to use them for you. If you are going to use the cleric class at all, you have to junk the flavour text about where they get their spells from because Conan's world doesn't work that way. That said, it just isn't true that all sorcery is evil, nor is it true that most religions are. Conan meets a lot of evil priests because generally speaking he doesn't storm benign temples, and heroic and upright priests don't generate the sorts of plotlines that result in interesting tales.

he is still an exception: a good deity in a "sea" of demons and evil gods. How many other "good" deities do exist in all the Hyborian kingdoms?

Well, given that the Hyborian kingdoms are, at least in the west, monolatrous Mitra worshippers the answer is of course "not many". But given that the "sea" of demons and evil cults consists of a few blokes in robes skulking in corners, and the "single exception" consists of 99% of the entire population, I'm not sure a headcount of entities worshipped is the way to go. On per capita representation the sea begins to look more like a puddle. As for outside the Hyborian kingdoms, I'm not aware that anyone has complained about Ishtar or Anu. Asura seems frankly benign. In fact, the Shemite religions seem to have some highly dohbtful deities, but as far as evil gods go it mostly seems to be Set, Hanuman and a bunch of minor devils.

The same act of granting powers to mortals can be seen as a temptation. Is it not true that sorcery is described as kind of addicting? What about the obsession? Hardly the work of a good deity!

No, its not. Not in Howard, anyway. As for the obsession, you don't have to have one, and it doesn't have to be evil. Obsession: eliminate starvation level poverty in Tarantia seems right up Mitra's street.