Conan - Revising Combat Maneuvers with PFPRG?

[Destan]

Hi all -

We've been playing Conan for a year or more now and enjoying the heck out of it. I know there's a lot of bad juju when folks talk about supporting Conan with various rule sets, and I know there's a lot of unhappiness with Pathfinder...but...I like the Pathfinder Combat Maneuver Bonus concept and, to be frank, was wondering if it's worth the hassle of trying to import it into Conan.

(CMB, for those who care and don't know, is a unified mechanic to resolve many special actions in combat - grapple, trip, disarm, sunder, etc.)

I think importing the CMB idea for the standard actions (trip, disarm, etc.) would be fairly easy. What I'm wondering is whether anyone took at look at the other Conan Combat Maneuvers and re-swizzled them (as needed) and, if so, any chance you could kick me your list? Was it worth the effort? Does it make your game better and/or run faster?

I suspect no one's done this, but I've been surprised before and hope to be surprised again!

Thanks!
D

 

[Clovenhoof]

Yup, we've done that.

Basically it's not bad, but per the standard PF rule the success chance for each maneuver feels too low - just 30% for equal opponents without Improved feats, and 50% with the relevant Improved feat (or just 10% if the defender has the Improved feat and the attacker does not).
While that actually may be a better chance than per the standard rules -- because those stupid Opposed Ability Checks are so annoyingly random -- it still _feels_ too low and thus is unsatisfying to use.

If you and your players also feel this way, you can fix this by lowering the DC from CMB+15 to CMB+11 or whatever you can agree on.

Also, when using the PF Grapple rules, I consider it a fatal flaw that they define each Grapple maneuver as Standard Action, meaning you can do only one per round; and you always need to wrest "strategic initiative" from your opponent before you can do stuff to him. Effectively, it's like an endless game of volleyball (by the old rules) where only the serving team can score, and everyone keeps botching their serve.
However, that can easily be solved by simply changing the rule so that grapple maneuvers count as Attack action rather than a Standard one, so for example a level 11 warrior can use his first attack to wrest initiative, his second attack to Pin and the third to Damage his opponent, all in a single round.

 

[Destan]

Thanks for the reply, Cloven.

Question: You mention the DC "from CMB+15 to CMB+11", but aren't the CM checks always going against the defender's CMD - which sets the DC?

I've never played PF, so I'm a bit blurry on the rules, but I think:

CMB = BAB + STR Mod + Size Mod

CMD = 10 + BAB + STR Mod + Dex Mod + Size Mod

We use active defense, so that "10" under CMD becomes 1d20, but that's neither here nor there.

Are you saying I should consider lowering that "10" to something else?

D

 

[Clovenhoof]

You're right on the CMB, yes there is a stat called CMD. But iirc this is calculated like this:

CMD = BAB + Abi Mod(*) + Size Mod + 15

*) Ability Mod: normally Strength, unless you purchase a feat to use your Dex _instead_ of Str for Combat Maneuvers. You don't add both.

but I am going from the Beta version of PF here, so it's possible they changed all that in the final release.

P.S. / Edit:
The whole point of the PF CM system is to GET RID of the opposed rolls normally required in D20, so your using active defense for the CMD kind of leads the entire PF system ad absurdum.
Essentially you are burdening yourself with a lot of work by imposing double house-rules whose effects cancel out each other.

 

[Destan]

Hmm...good point(s). Need to chew on it a bit. I'm not sure the CMB thing is to remove opposed rolls (well, not exclusively for that purpose) - but rather to lump all those maneuvers into a unified system. In 3E grapple is its own beast, disarm works differently than sunder, and trip is different as well. They are sub-systems within a system, and that's (IMO) bad design.