[CONAN] Recurring Bad Guys

[Supplement Four]

I've been trying to set up a recurring bad guy in my campaign. I strive to allow my players all the freedom they think they have all the time (it's not always possible, but they don't know that), so, in combat situations, I never pull punches with Bad Guys. If the PCs manage to kill 'em, then the Big Bad Guy dies. Good for the PCs. My players trust me to play that way.

My first attempt at a recurring bad guy, I set up a scenario where the guy had an excellent head start in a chase and had the skills to easily overcome the obstacles I presented. This was kind of a neat scenario as the PCs chased the Bad Guy along the limbs of these giant, connected trees. I call them Thicket Trees. A copse of them can be miles long--this grove of big, thick tree trunks with these impossible limbs that stretch out, actually growing into the limbs of nearby Thicket Tree trunks.

I thought the Bad Guy would make it through that one, but one of the PCs nabbed him pretty good with a javelin, caught him, and shoved a dirk into his gut.

Bye-bye Bad Guy.



Tomorrow, we're playing again. It's our first time in a few months, and I've devised another encounter where I hope I'll have a recurring bad guy. Long story short, it's a (fairly weak) demon that has crawled up out of the Pit. The enemy stronghold, where the PCs are, has a room where the enemy has closed off this room and barred it--where the demon stays.

The demon, I made up, basing it on a young black dragon. It's humanoid, scaly and has claws, wings and a short tail. It's got a long snake head and neck, though. So, the head can twist and curl all around it's body, looking in any direction.

Anytime it's bite is successful, a check is made to see if the Demon has locked its fangs into its victim. If so, the Demon goes to town raking the victim to bits with its claws. The victim has to pull a small weapon, like a dagger, and then stab, stab, stab away to get the thing to release.

If the PCs reduce the Demon down to 10 HP or less, I'm going to have it retreat down into the hole (in the same room) from which is crawled up out of the earth.

But, going into this, I know that there's a good chance that the Demon I made up will not make it out of the encounter alive to be the recurring Bad Guy.

I like the idea of this thing showing up later, bigger, badder, meaner, living out in the woods (kinda like in the first Alien movie where, evertime the crew encountered the Alien, the thing was bigger and meaner).

I think it would be neat if, in unrelated future game sessions, the players run across a footpint in the mud that they know is the demon. Or, have the demon attack NPCs in the Players' village. Maybe even surprise the PCs one day by having the thing speak to them....can't you just see this thing, it's back to you, with is snake head curled around under its left armpit, looking straight back at you, speaking, telling you that your dead grandmother wants the Demon to tell you "Hi".

That'd be cool.

Lots of ideas, I have, for further encounters.

But, first, the doggone thing has got to make it out of its first encounter with the PCs. I'll tell ya. TI'm not betting on the demon.





So, what about you? Do you have recurring bad guys in your game? If so, how'd that work? Did you ensure the Bad Guy would make it no matter what the PCs did? Or, did you try to stack the deck like I did above (and still failed) to try an end up with your recurring bad guy?

 

[Jeraa]

If you want to ensure that something will become a recurring villain, just give them fate points (page 75, 2nd edition core book).

Some significant Non-Player Characters may also have Fate Points, at the Games Master’s discretion.

I would say a recurring villain would count as a significant NPC. That gives them several abilities to help avoid death, including Left for Dead just in case the player do get lucky enough to kill him.

 

[Spectator]

I think you need to think in a more "pulp fiction" style. The fact that you don't fudge the dice with the players is GOOD and sometimes bad. Sure its cool that you are one of the most fanatic Conan players who is into realism, I get that from your numerous posts; detailing how you would RW a certain player action.

Bad in the effect that sometimes great stories depend on Conan getting knocked senseless in a back alleyway in Messantia, or having Conan survive being Crucified and left for dead (A Witch Is Born). I have a feeling that if you had these scenarios you would actually have Conan make a Fort save against from being knocked senseless or have Conan make a fort save against the crucifiction.
Well, if your boy made or lost the saves, the story you have developed as a GM may never come to fruition?!?

Likewise, your black dragon/ demon should be able to get away. I'll bet your players would like it to know they have an avowed foe, or having your tree-limb running dude, dodge the javelin and fall into a fast moving river where his fate is unknown (wink, you know it though)!

So I think we have had this discussion before but you are more about the crunch than the storyline, IMHO, I love epic fantasy and like the control a GM has; where you are more attuned to the "how this works" crunch.
Well, actions have consequences.
The Javelin toss by your boy would've missed (or grazed him) in my version, while in your's the javelin goes in the dude's back, leg, arm, or whatever. That's the problem with Natch 20s and Natch 1s and why I don't use that concept. In theory, they can Fuck up a great storyline.

Yeah I probably should go back and play 1st Ed. ADnD

 

[Supplement Four]

Yeah I probably should go back and play 1st Ed. ADnD

LOL. You should...

But, I think I should, too. I like that method of playing better than the hard crunch of 3rd Edition.

 

[LucaCherstich]

So I think we have had this discussion before but you are more about the crunch than the storyline, IMHO, I love epic fantasy and like the control a GM has; where you are more attuned to the "how this works" crunch.
Well, actions have consequences.
The Javelin toss by your boy would've missed (or grazed him) in my version, while in your's the javelin goes in the dude's back, leg, arm, or whatever. That's the problem with Natch 20s and Natch 1s and why I don't use that concept. In theory, they can **** up a great storyline.

Yeah I probably should go back and play 1st Ed. ADnD

I know you are not speaking to me, but to S4, but I'm interested in the matter.

I feel that crunch is potential for both great fun or great story failure or, better, great potential for changing and evolving things in an upredictable way.
I've always hated old GURPS or Rolemaster-style rules, but sometimes I feel that adding a bit of crunch makes things fun.
I've played a LOT of Vampire 15 years ago....but players sometimes got bored by oversimple system, even if the story is wonderful.

Romans would say: in medio stat Veritas.

Off course GM's job is a hard one.
He must choose when to follow or not follow the rules. He must have the authority on players to say when rules work and when they do not work because of story needs.
I feel that a rpg is not a boardgame where all are equals.
In RPGs the Master is above the others, kind of minor god, and he can cheat rules, but I feel he must be also extremely careful about not offending players and keep the whole thing fun.

Regarding the possibility of giving Fate points to NPC I find the whole idea useless.
You are the Game Master, and you do not have to explain "the Demon spent a fate point to reroll" or if you do, you do not need to tell the players how many fate points the Demon has...
.. but sometimes it is useful to get that demon killed, even if you wanted it to be a recurring bad guy!

Let's be clear and honest on my opinion: I say that GM are minor gods...but I feel that if my story goes straightly as I planned it's definitively a failure.
This is off course only my opinion, and maybe you could think I'm a masochistic GM...
However, I WANT unpredictable things to happen also to the Game Master and I like when my players beat my recurring villain, even if I planned a whole career for him, whether they beat him by lucky rolls or through smart plans.
SOmetimes a tricky roll make things new and fun for everybody.
The challenging taste of planning again a new story everytime is too much for me.
I enjoy changing WHOLE stories in 3 minutes only because those bloody players overcome what I put in front of them.
I find BORING that whole stories follow exactly the course established from the beginning.
I do not know who your players are, but I never played a pre-made published adventure or campaign withoyt my players changing A LOT in the course of the game, whether by lucky dice rolls or by their cunning ideas.
And that's fun for me, as a GM.

 

[Kasimir]

Armour?
Fast Healing?
More hit points and retreats at 20 HP instead?
Diehard feat? (especially in combination with fast healing)

Any of these should improve survivability.

 

[Supplement Four]

We played two days ago....of course, the PCs never made it to the locked room where the demon dwelt. They're not out of the complex yet, but it looks like next session, they'll be out before the enemy patrol returns, off and away, trying to make their way back to their village.

So, the good news is: The demon-wannabe-recurring bad guys lives.

Bad news is: The players know nothing of him.

 

[RangerDan]

So, the good news is: The demon-wannabe-recurring bad guys lives.

Bad news is: The players know nothing of him.

Plan (noun): A list of things guaranteed not to happen.

True both in war and RPGs.

 

[Supplement Four]

Plan (noun): A list of things guaranteed not to happen.

True both in war and RPGs.

Good news: Next session, the bad buy strong hold will be shaking up and falling down, Hollywood movie style, and as the PCs run out, what will they see standing above he entrance? Yep. Mr. Demon.

Who will direct some undead from the air, where the PCs are unlikely to get him.

And, boom....I've got a good way to introduce my recurring demon before he flies off once the PCs are successful against the undead.

New word: Contingency!

 

[tneva82]

where the PCs are unlikely to get him.

Famous last word. Just you wait for them to roll some freaky unlikely mega-shot with longbow causing criticals and max damage's and whatnot

 

[Supplement Four]

Famous last word.

No doubt!

 

[Mach5RR]

where the PCs are unlikely to get him.

Famous last word. Just you wait for them to roll some freaky unlikely mega-shot with longbow causing criticals and max damage's and whatnot

I'm not actually going to suggest -cheating- to advance the story, however ...

Yes, I have seen a planned recurring character get hit with a lucky shot ... which then critted ... which the player spent a fate point to max out.

But if you pre-seed in advance you can avoid most of these situations.
By this, I mean how do you describe your magic. Do you describe it in specific terms, that players know exactly what is happening, and may reference the spell in the rulebooks to see if you used it properly? Or is enemy magic more subtle ... when most of your enemy mages cast spells, are the players even aware?

So your player rolls a nat 20 with a bow, followed by another 20. Score! But before he can spend the fate point, a gust of wind kicks up carting the arrow down the canyon. Was that magic on the villains part or was it just the GM being a dick with the weather to advance the plot? The players may never know.
Don't forget to give your players the devils choice when facing villains. The choice to face him now or stave off something worse is always a good one ("I am going to stay here, finish my meal, then pay my bill - you are going to rush with every ounce of your being to the other side of Messantia, where Ishtar willing, you will be in time to save your friends')

One of the best uses I found to build up a recurring villain was for the 'between' stories.
By this, I tried to start off all the adventures Conan style. Not necessarily where the last one left off. I usually would declare that several months had passed, and would relocate them to wherever the adventure was kicking off with a small song-and-dance story of how they got there and why they now needed money/reason to do something. And some of it could revolve around the recurring villain, who had separated them from their gold, run them out of town, and has them chasing after rumors of him across Hyboria. In this sense, I was able to build a recurring villain, who the party met only once or twice, but was mentioned every 2 - 3 adventures until they finally threw down with him at 8th level.