[CONAN] Non-Tlazitlan Aztecs:

Kasimir

Mongoose
First of all, thanks for your help in advance to anyone who does reply to help me with this. Essentially I am looking for suggestions on a custom race.

In a nutshell, I am looking to apply the Conan rule system in a somewhat original world, although inspired by many real-world cultures. For the most part it is pretty easy, most of the races in Conan had Earth inspirations too, so only minor modifications have been needed.

However, an Aztec-inspired culture is important for this, for which the Conan system uses Tlazitlans.

The problem with this is I am aiming for something closer to the historical Aztec Empire or Triple Alliance (but with magic), and nearly all of the Tlazitlan racial traits not only do not fit but outright contradict them. The terrain bonus fits (although change from plains to jungle or tropical), but the rest seems very inappropriate.

I will go over why the other racial traits are inappropriate for the culture I am aiming for, hopefully it will give a clearer idea what I am after in case you want to make suggestions.

Corruption penalty – Aztec society valued self-control and discipline, and harshly punished drunkenness or intemperance. Nobles who committed crimes were often punished more harshly than commoners (because higher standards were expected of them). Not really fitting with the depravity and indulgence of being susceptible to corruption.

Intimidate & Profession (torturer) – Aside from not much economic potential for that profession, avenues for it were fairly limited. Mistreating one’s slaves was punished with slavery. Physical punishment for children or harsh corporal punishment of criminals was common, but hardly more so than most of Europe and Asia, certainly not a skill every member of society would need.

Feud – Maybe a little, but this was a culture that launched ritual wars to gather sacrifices as if expecting no hard feelings. Obsessive grudges seem a little out of place.

Terror penalty – This was a culture fairly accepting of death, and since these are going to be fairly high magic like the Picts or Stygians it seems they would be somewhat more accustomed to the supernatural.

Background skills – Not to repeat points mentioned above. The Telpochcalli and Calmacec provided a nearly universal public education, including trade skills, basic military training, the “sayings of the old” (a combination of history and religion).

Anyway, that is why Tlazitlan does not fit. So I am looking to create a new set of racial traits and background skills for this culture far closer to the Aztecs. I am thinking possibly something that a combines elements of Picts, Chaga and Stygian.

Important features of the culture that might affect traits:

Near universal public education system (skill bonuses for education).

Extremely active religiously (Perform: ritual & Knowledge: arcana bonuses).

Basic military training as part of the Telpochcalli (weapon proficiencies, cultural weapon bonuses).

Well-maintained road system for trade (not sure if any bonus is appropriate).

Jungle hazards being a fact of life (+1 wilderness skills in jungle or tropical regions).

Background skills I am not sure of, I think any one Craft or Profession would be important, Perform (ritual) is likely. For the other two skills I am not sure, I just know nothing on the Tlazitlan list fits.

Basically any suggestions are welcome (except for “use Tlazitlan” of course), I would like to know what people think would be appropriate and balanced.

Once again, thank you to all who help.
 
I dig the Torture Bonus.
I agree with you on a lot of other things though.
To reflect their smaller stature, I would give them a -1 or -2 Strength modifier.
If you give them all the bonuses you are planning I would think that's acceptable.
I do like the Feud trait. OK it was the Mayans that feuded with each other that caused their downfall of their civilization, but I just LIKE that trait. Each city state could be in perpetual warfare for sacrifices to the sun god.
I would not give everyone the Ritual bonus, but there is a strong argument why it should be there.

I'm very interested in how you will shape your magic system, please elaborate when you have a chance.

I'd be open to everyone getting a free feat: Ritual Sacrifice. Because they would be familiar with daily sacrifices to the sun god and would be pretty comfy doing one.
 
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

My aim is to emphasise the sophistication of the culture and their organised education. I really struggle with what skills to raise, because while they would be fairly educated they would not necessarily know that much of the wider world. For example, if I were to increase Knowledge (religion) that would also suggest they were more likely to know about other gods. I suppose it could work considering part of their expansion was to place Huitzilopochtli as an equal to the local god of the city they might be somewhat aware of other pantheons just by allowing the gods to coexist.

Since I want them to be warriors as well I want to avoid Strength penalties. I doubt they would be weaker than say Picts or Khitans.

Ritual Sacrifice, while thematically suitable, would only really be useful for sorcerers. I guess the same applies to a Perform (ritual) bonus,

The Ameyatl will not be the only Mesoamerican-themed society around, so using the Feud trait for someone else could work really well for distinguishing the different cultures from each other.

What I have in mind:

+1 Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot & Survival in tropical environments. For the Ameyatl, despite having great cities, the jungle is a way of life, and learning its ways is required to thrive.

Weapon familiarity: maquahuitl and atlatl. Among the Ameyatl, weapons such as these are commonplace and all warriors familiarise themselves with them.

+2 Knowledge (religion), Heal & Perform (ritual). Religion is of daily importance to the Ameyatl, and the people are encouraged to think in ritual terms and have a basic knowledge of ceremonies. Additionally, many sacrifices are offerings of one’s own blood, often drawn in painful manners, so every Ameyatl has some experiencing tending to minor self-inflicted injuries.

Skill Focus as a bonus feat in one Craft, Profession or Knowledge skill. The Telpochcalli teach all youths practical skills or trades based on their district, and the Calmecac provides advanced academic studies. Every Ameyatl receives a formal education in the skills they are expected to need for life.

Background skills: Any one Craft or Profession, Knowledge (local), Knowledge (religion), and any one skill of choice.

My thoughts are only +1 wilderness skills because they are semi-urban. The jungle is significant but they are not hunter-gatherers.

Only weapon familiarity because weapons were restricted in peacetime, so despite the basic training it would mean their weapon experience was not extensive. Those weapons were typically the arms of a warrior too, people who were not professional warriors the rest of the time could use maces, hunting bows or slings.

For the magic system I have not really had anything special in mind. Occasionally I have tweaked a few things like changing a few Defensive Blasts or creating new Sorcerous Manoeuvres (such as Phantom Slam – uses the Burst Barrier spell for a slam attack against a creature, Magic Attack bonus + effective Strength bonus + charge bonus - size penalty, damage as a huge creature slamming: 2d8 + effective Strength bonus).

So I was not really planning to do much differently with the magic system, just original uses of spells on a wide scale. For example, the Jaguar Warriors and Eagle Warriors would use Awful Rite of the Werebeast for initiation rites. Maybe a modified version of Put Them Into The Swamp could be common as well.

Feats that grant templates would be relatively common and celebrated among the Ameyatl – Spawn of Dagoth Hill, Child of Jhebbal Sag or Strigoi. Non-humans would have an elevated status in their society, possibly that was their origin or it could be a by-product of a warrior culture where species with advantages in combat would tend to rise to the top.
 
The only reason I like the STR penalties is due to the fact that if you implement all the bonuses you suggest, the common proto-aztec you are designing will have the skill equivalencies of a 2nd or 3rd level fighter, if not more. The penalties are justified IMHO, due to the fact that they were of smaller stature (historically) since they lived in a warmer climate and relied on carbohydrates (Corn) not protein for sustenance (as opposed to the proto-Iroquois/ Picts).

Now if all of your enemies are proto-aztecs, then the STR penalty will cancel out, but if they did some raids into the north and met proto iroquis or proto apache, I think they should be smaller than the "barbaric" tribes, but make up for it many-fold due to thier weapon technology, organization, and numbers. Just like the smaller Romans did against the larger Celtic barbarians.

I was hoping more for a necromantic/ summoning / nature magic/ hypnotism based magic system.
The flashy slam/ telekinesis spells don't see to jibe with the Aztec/ Mayan Death/ Nature cults.
But hey its your game, just keep me informed.
 
I would rather reduce the bonuses than give them a STR penalty, since all the other races have balanced ability score modifiers. I could give them -2 STR +2 INT and have their education reflected that way but a higher intelligence implies being inherently smarter as well, which is not the impression I am going for either.

In that case, which bonuses would you suggest I reduce and what to? I want them in the same league as Zingarans, Gundermen or Vendhyans (most of the colonists use the rules for those three races).

The proto-Aztecs will be using Necromancy & Nature Magic & Curses the most, but the Conan rules cover those sorcery styles marvellously in my opinion. However, most of the players (who are going mainly for proto-Europeans) want to be able to use the more flashy type of magic. It works well for me because if the proto-European PCs are trying to get flashy TK punches then the proto-Aztec sorcerers seem different and mysterious just by using the normal magic system.

Pictish feats will also be helpful for their magic, along with ranks in Knowledge (mysteries). Some of their mystery cults will be pretty similar to Stygia's.

A clever thought about diet though. I had never considered that.
 
I guess I am not understanding your end goal.
I thought you wanted to create a "stand-alone" world of Meso-America based on the Conan rules.
I was not thinking that you were wanting to bring your proto-Aztecs across the sea to Hyboria or Hyborians across the sea to meet your Aztecs.

I think it's fair to give the -2STR/ +2INT modifier. But I really would be wary about making so many skills with so many +1 or +2 modifiers. In the end, it is very easy to make this race into a SuperRace, out of its common origins.

I like the concept of the Feud, I also like the concept of "cultural superiority" which would give them a NEGATIVE diplomacy check to anyone not of their culture. Similar to the Chinese in the middle kingdom, who though every one outside of China was a barbarian. Not to mention all their weird clothing and piercings (I am thinking of the movie "Apocolypto")

Maybe a negative modifier to all things boat related/ sailing/ etc???
No ability to craft anything out of metal unless gold (easily hammered and melted, and easy to find, compared to mining, smelting, and forging steel).

I love the mayan/ aztec concept. I think it can be a fun race, but may be more fun as its own separate identity.
 
Guys, sorry about this minor derailment of your thread. Have you checked out Totems of the Dead for Savage Worlds. Apparently it was originally conceived as a Hyborian Age New World setting for a Savage Worlds Conan.
It has changed quite a bit since the SWConan idea fell through, but there looks to be some great stuff in there as well as some excellent artwork. :)
 
tarkhan bey said:
Guys, sorry about this minor derailment of your thread. Have you checked out Totems of the Dead for Savage Worlds. Apparently it was originally conceived as a Hyborian Age New World setting for a Savage Worlds Conan.
It has changed quite a bit since the SWConan idea fell through, but there looks to be some great stuff in there as well as some excellent artwork. :)

Link?
 
Sorry guys but I am a computer illiterate, so I have no idea how to set up a link for you. :oops:
It's by Gunmetal Games. It should be easy to find using a basic Google Search. There is a massive preview PDF on their site.
 
tarkhan bey said:
Sorry guys but I am a computer illiterate, so I have no idea how to set up a link for you. :oops:
It's by Gunmetal Games. It should be easy to find using a basic Google Search. There is a massive preview PDF on their site.

Easy enough
Totems of the Dead

It's interesting, but I've seen several takes on how to do Conan games in Savage Worlds
 
Sorry it has been a while, but university took priority.

My end goal is to have a few races representing the local cultures on their own terms rather than the “torture-fetish-savages” stereotype that is a bit too common for non-Hyborians in the Conan setting.

The colonists are not Hyborians, but the existing races simulate the colonists quite well.

I decided to look at the existing races again for a point of comparison. I am thinking of using either Chaga or Tauran as a starting point and making some small modifications.

Taurans:

Adaptability (+2 to any 2 skills, always class skills).
Terrain bonuses (+1).
+1 Survival.
+1 Fate Points.

Chaga:
+1 Perform (ritual) & Craft (alchemy).
+1 Sense Motive.
+1 Terrain bonus.
Bonus feat (from a limited list).

Measuring up against them, I am thinking the template for these proto-Aztecs (Ameyatl) should be…

+1 Perform (ritual) & Craft (herbalism).
+1 Heal.
+1 Terrain bonuses.
Bonus feat (from among: Craftsman, Dabbler, Diligent, Great Fortitude, Knowledgeable, Ritual Sacrifice, Self-Sufficient, Stygian Physician).

This way I can use the bonus feat to reflect their education system at the Telpochcalli or Calmacec without making their skill bonuses disproportionate to other races.

Background skills, I am less sure of. I want to lean away from giving them wilderness skills because they are more urbanised than some of the other smaller civilisations in the area – and it would serve as a good way of distinguishing them from the Acaxomeca (Reed People, spread across an Amazon-like river) or the Iwsuni (a smaller group adapted to living near a volcano and who use the eruptions as a source of building material, silt, and obsidian).

Favoured class would be a moot point. I buy into the idea of all classes being favoured classes so that it does not punish players for using original character concepts rather than playing common cultural stereotypes.

By the way, Totems of the Dead looks really interesting!
 
I totally disagree with your statement about Favored classes.
Races do have stereotypes.
These should be better for some in certain areas and better for others in other areas.

Would you want a Cimmerian to be the equal of a Stygian in Sorcery or, vice versa, the Stygian bred princeling to be a skilled barbarian like the Cimmerian?

I just don't see the REH flavor coming through by taking away the favored classes construct.
I can see the logic (sort of and I disagree with it) but not the REH flavor coming through.
 
Spectator said:
I totally disagree with your statement about Favored classes.
Races do have stereotypes.
These should be better for some in certain areas and better for others in other areas.

Would you want a Cimmerian to be the equal of a Stygian in Sorcery or, vice versa, the Stygian bred princeling to be a skilled barbarian like the Cimmerian?

I just don't see the REH flavor coming through by taking away the favored classes construct.
I can see the logic (sort of and I disagree with it) but not the REH flavor coming through.

Fair enough, I am not aiming to make a carbon copy of REH flavour.

I mention that I am not using favoured classes because I only need to figure out the racial traits and background skills of these new races, I will not be needing suggestions for favoured classes.

Nialldubh said:
I not want to interrupt either, waiting patiently to see your result of new Culture!

This may have been seen before I not know, but was attempting a search on Tarkhan Bey's post and found this not sure if S4 or other has linked it, nothing to do with Savageworld, but not sure?

http://www.savageheroes.com/conversions/savage%20sword%20of%20conan_online.pdf

Edit: yip, I got it, but this is a new version of "Savage Hyboria!" which we got a PDF file before, nicely redone though!!!

Thanks! I will take a look at this when I get chance.
 
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