Mongoose Gar
Mongoose
Just saw this thread over on rpg.net http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=354591 - the artist has put some of the maps from Return to the Road of Kings up.
Conan map preview
- Thread starter Mongoose Gar
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FailedSpotCheck
Mongoose
I can see that the illustrator attempted to work some of Rippke's research into the s. coast of "Africa" and "India" as well as "China" and "SE Asia." :wink:
I wonder how close they are to Vincent Darlage's originals? :?
I wonder how close they are to Vincent Darlage's originals? :?
I've seen the maps that Vincent sent to the illustrator. His maps use close copies of my map's national borders, combined with stuff I don't show on my maps; i.e. cities and rivers and the like. The artist made Khitai way to big and too far north; it's jungles should lie at the same latitudes as the jungles of Vendhya.
The Zingaran map also has a problem. In THE HOUR OF THE DRAGON Conan rides a death-barge down the Khoratus River and gets off next to the Poitainian Mountains. He rides up into the mountains and is met and taken across the mountains; southward into Poitain. The border between Poitain and Zingara is the Alimane River. The province of Poitain should lie between the Mountains and the Alimane River, not north of the mountains as they show it.
The Zingaran map also has a problem. In THE HOUR OF THE DRAGON Conan rides a death-barge down the Khoratus River and gets off next to the Poitainian Mountains. He rides up into the mountains and is met and taken across the mountains; southward into Poitain. The border between Poitain and Zingara is the Alimane River. The province of Poitain should lie between the Mountains and the Alimane River, not north of the mountains as they show it.
I wish mongoose would hire you Dale.
I don't understand the lack of cities and locals in the regional maps.
The Argos and Zingara source book, for example has gazetteers that detail a number of locations, but they remain off the maps here.
That is a big disappointment to me.
Over all, the maps look nice, but why are the rivers so incredibly wide?
I don't understand the lack of cities and locals in the regional maps.
The Argos and Zingara source book, for example has gazetteers that detail a number of locations, but they remain off the maps here.
That is a big disappointment to me.
Over all, the maps look nice, but why are the rivers so incredibly wide?
Yogah of Yag
Mongoose
windman said:
+1. 8)
I don't think they can afford him. :wink:
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
FailedSpotCheck said:
Thulsa has my originals; maybe he will put them up soon on his site. When and if he does, you can make your own comparison. The black kingdoms are an improvement over the old map.
And the artist still put mountains around Khauran! I specifically requested no mountains around Khauran because the description in A Witch Shall Be Born does not show any mountains...
The rivers of Turan are still wrong. Everything east of the Vilayet is wrong. It looks like there is an island in the middle of Stygia. And why Mongoose insists on an arctic Pathenia the size of Aquilonia is beyond me.
There are several other problems with the map that I can see offhand.
The Goralian Hills are not supposed to be in Cimmeria, they are part of southern Gunderland, just to the north of the Shirki River.
The Shirki River is misspelled as the Shikal River.
Argo's western extention is missing (its the part that Messantia is supposed to be located in, according to Howard's map)
The empire of Tombalku (indeed nearly the entire Southern Desert) is shown on the map as being a jungle.
The northern part of Keshan is grassland; only the southern edge is jungle. It is not all jungle.
The Ilbars and Zaporoska Rivers are in the wrong locations.
Where is the Sumero Tso and the nation of Meru? It appears to be missing.
The nation of Vendhya has the borders that I drew on my map and the cities are located within those borders. However, Vendhya is labeled as being the jungleland of the southern subcontinent. A bit confusing...
Kosala, which should be part of the jungles of the southeast, is placed in a desert.
The part of Hyrkania that lies along the Eastern Ocean should not be heavily forested. It should be mostly plains and deserts.
Hey Vincent, did you notice that Kusan is on the map in two different locations? On your maps of the East, Kusan is the small country that lies on the seacoast between Khitai and the eastern part of Hyrkania. His map shows that nation. He also places Kusan directly to the west of the Mountains of Night. Weird, huh?
Thats all for now; my head's on the verge of blowing up... :roll:
The Goralian Hills are not supposed to be in Cimmeria, they are part of southern Gunderland, just to the north of the Shirki River.
The Shirki River is misspelled as the Shikal River.
Argo's western extention is missing (its the part that Messantia is supposed to be located in, according to Howard's map)
The empire of Tombalku (indeed nearly the entire Southern Desert) is shown on the map as being a jungle.
The northern part of Keshan is grassland; only the southern edge is jungle. It is not all jungle.
The Ilbars and Zaporoska Rivers are in the wrong locations.
Where is the Sumero Tso and the nation of Meru? It appears to be missing.
The nation of Vendhya has the borders that I drew on my map and the cities are located within those borders. However, Vendhya is labeled as being the jungleland of the southern subcontinent. A bit confusing...
Kosala, which should be part of the jungles of the southeast, is placed in a desert.
The part of Hyrkania that lies along the Eastern Ocean should not be heavily forested. It should be mostly plains and deserts.
Hey Vincent, did you notice that Kusan is on the map in two different locations? On your maps of the East, Kusan is the small country that lies on the seacoast between Khitai and the eastern part of Hyrkania. His map shows that nation. He also places Kusan directly to the west of the Mountains of Night. Weird, huh?
Thats all for now; my head's on the verge of blowing up... :roll:
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
Darkstorm said:
Not until you mentioned it, but you are right. Wow. To say I am disapointed is an understatement. I need to go back and look at it more closely. I wonder if Uttara Karu is there.
I noticed most of the Westermarck place names are in the mountains in the northwest of Aquilonia along with the Tauran, even though those regions are not mountainous.
windman is also right; the rivers are too wide.
You are correct about the Black Kingdoms, Darkstorm. The Southern Desert is gone and Tombalku is now jungle. Wow. How hard is it to make a map? I gave them guidelines.
Wow, this is really disappointing news.
After all the feedback mongoose has had on mapping issues, and the expert advice Dale and Vincent have offered, to once again put such below par maps in their product, I am thinking of canceling my order for this book.
Of course, I expect the text that Vincent wrote will be worth it, but I cannot understand why the instructions of the writer regarding the maps would be ignored.
What bad news.
After all the feedback mongoose has had on mapping issues, and the expert advice Dale and Vincent have offered, to once again put such below par maps in their product, I am thinking of canceling my order for this book.
Of course, I expect the text that Vincent wrote will be worth it, but I cannot understand why the instructions of the writer regarding the maps would be ignored.
What bad news.
I've got mixed feelings about this map. On one hand, it's hard to understand how errors like these can occur, especially given the grief that Mongoose has taken over the years about its sub-par maps. On the other hand, it's gratifying to see the nations outside of Hyboria appearing in (mostly) the correct locations. This map IS more accurate than the usual Hyborian Age map.
The thing that just kills me is that it looks like the mapmaker just tried to meld Vincent's maps together with the 1st ed Conan map and made a mash-up. The only reason that I can see for the artist to place Khitai so far north as he did is because conventional wisdom has "Khitai = China".
In my mind, you either use the traditional Conan map as it is, or you change the whole thing to reflect the current cartographic research. This half and half approach isn't going to make anyone happy. I know that it's possible to use the current research with the pastiche material because I've seen Vincent's maps of the Southlands and the East. I'd be perfectly happy to see those maps show up in THE RETURN TO THE ROAD OF KINGS.
The thing that just kills me is that it looks like the mapmaker just tried to meld Vincent's maps together with the 1st ed Conan map and made a mash-up. The only reason that I can see for the artist to place Khitai so far north as he did is because conventional wisdom has "Khitai = China".
In my mind, you either use the traditional Conan map as it is, or you change the whole thing to reflect the current cartographic research. This half and half approach isn't going to make anyone happy. I know that it's possible to use the current research with the pastiche material because I've seen Vincent's maps of the Southlands and the East. I'd be perfectly happy to see those maps show up in THE RETURN TO THE ROAD OF KINGS.
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
Darkstorm said:
I would have thought Mongoose would have sent the artist the files for those nations. I have the Goralian Hills listed in Aquilonia and Shirki is spelled correctly. Where did the artist get those locations?
The map of Cimmeria does not include most of geographic information I gave in the text. The Black Mountains (between Cimmeria and Pictland) are not there. Even the mountains between Cimmeria and the Border Kingdom are gone. Cimmeria looks like flatland... a great place for Conan to learn how to climb. One would have hoped that the artist would have at least read the poem "Cimmeria" since it describes the land so well (forests, hills and peaks).
And, though this is not the artist's fault, I wish Mongoose would stop calling it "The World of Hyboria." It is the Hyborian Age - not Hyboria.
At least Hyrkania stretches to "the very shores of the eastern ocean” now. :wink:Darkstorm said:
Just kiddin'.
I think you're absolutely right:
I don't know who made the choices (the artist, someone in charge at Mongoose ?) and why, but it's really weird. This map is slightly better than the earlier one, it looks nice, but there's still some flaws and errors. Yes, the artist probably "mixed" the first ed map with new stuff, I don't know how it was done but it was another poor choice...Why he didn't draw a totally new map is beyond me.
It seems that once again, I will buy a Mongoose product because of the written text and despite the maps (or lack thereof)/poor editing...
Yogah of Yag
Mongoose
*sigh*
(rubbing temples in agony)
Why are maps still a problem with this publisher?!?! :shock: :evil:
I did notice that there are quite a few less features in the Cimmeria map.
I didn't see the Snowhawk clan even given.
Cannot Mongoose update/correct the bad files and reprint the later printings with corrections?
(rubbing temples in agony)
Why are maps still a problem with this publisher?!?! :shock: :evil:
I did notice that there are quite a few less features in the Cimmeria map.
I didn't see the Snowhawk clan even given.
Cannot Mongoose update/correct the bad files and reprint the later printings with corrections?
Thank you for the spontaneous critics and comments.
I'm truly sorry for any possible inaccurate placements, all I can say is that the Conan 2nd edition maps undergone a complete restyling (not only in graphics and look) with lots of modifications and now some areas greatly differs from those of 1ed (the geography of some countries was totally redefined).
I've followed precise instructions in redrawing the maps and the guys at Mongoose seemed OK with the final renderings.
I'm sure there is a perfect explanation, maybe Mongoose plans for the 2nd edition of Conana reserves some surprises for the fans :?:
I'm truly sorry for any possible inaccurate placements, all I can say is that the Conan 2nd edition maps undergone a complete restyling (not only in graphics and look) with lots of modifications and now some areas greatly differs from those of 1ed (the geography of some countries was totally redefined).
I've followed precise instructions in redrawing the maps and the guys at Mongoose seemed OK with the final renderings.
I'm sure there is a perfect explanation, maybe Mongoose plans for the 2nd edition of Conana reserves some surprises for the fans :?:
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
windman said:
Not yet. Thulsa might put them up on his site, though.
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